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Old 11-18-2013, 03:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Slim View Post
I'm not sure I understand how using a SC body will reduce the height of a hopper for OC play. You still need some sort of feed neck that attaches to the body in order to use a hopper, so why wouldn't you just use a CCI OC body?



You can configure regs and stabilizers in many different positions and places on the gun and tank. Out of curiosity, is there a specific reason why you want a vertical reg?

Also out of curiosity, what is your goal in running a gas-through grip? Gas-through grips don't offer any performance gains, so other than pure aesthetics, I'm not sure what the point would be. The gas-through grip mods I have seen seemed to have made maintenance and disassembly far more difficult than the factory set ups which negates the whole simplicity aspect of the gun.



Regulators and stabilizers serve a specific purpose. If your goal is to run low pressure air, then simply purchase the reg that will fit your needs. The Palmer's Fatty is designed as a low pressure reg, just like PPS offers regs for HPA use. On some systems you may need two regs to get to the pressure you need - one on the tank, and one on the gun. You need to determine what pressure will work best for your needs and purchase from there.

Despite what you may have been told/read, springs are not the "end all" solution to efficiency, and never have been. Nelson-based springs offer a limited range of performance, and that's it. I'm not sure what the value would be trying to reduce the force needed to pump the gun, as the Phantom doesn't really have a difficult/hard pump stroke. I do know that you do not want to run a light valve spring. Weak valve springs = leaky valves and poor efficiency, especially with 12 grams.
First, a stock class breach can have a threaded feed neck attached eliminating the need for the cheap plastic straight elbow. Lapco makes a nice straight elbow that could work but still adds considerable length. Since my hopper won't fit directly over the feed tube the next best thing is the short clamping feed neck that fits a stock breach.

Vertical reg would have been for convenience and aesthetics. If I had wanted to reduce the working pressure of the gun it would need to be re sprung to correct the dwell so that the paint could reach velocity. A light main spring would reduce the force needed to cock and there for pump the gun. Although it sounds like the gain is not noticeable. It could also reduce the sound signature of the gun some but as Phantoms with 11" barrels are already very quiet it's probably not much of a gain.

I have mentioned that I will use compressed air. The tank regulator brings the output psi down to about 800psi. This is the range Nelson's were designed to be run at. the gun was originally meant for CO2 and a CO2 cylinder at room temp will have a similar psi output. If you reduce the operating psi you will soon hit a point when you will be forced to Chang springs or suffer reduced velocity.

Phantoms have a nice smooth pump stroke but it is in no way light. If you get the chance to shoot a nice Sniper or a CCM you will learn what a light pump stroke is. It is most noticeable when you try to shoot quickly and are still attempting to maintain some level of accuracy. I'll admit I have been looking at the T2 and hope to get one some day. My non CCM WGP Sniper has a nice light pump stroke but is noticeably heavier then my Phantoms. Personally I usually notice weight much more then pump stroke when I'm playing. Hence why most of my pumps and all of my Phantoms are stock class.

The gas through grip is mostly for fun and to get the high pressure hose out of the way. That could also be accomplished with a vertical air adapter. I would like to pass the gun between my hands without it getting in the way. It looks like the normal bottom line should be set up for the hand you use the most. If I'm shooting out the left side of a bunker I like to hold the gun in my left hand. I have never had a bottom line going straight to the valve body, it may prove to be no big deal. I'm guessing that is why the line is so long.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1shot View Post
First, a stock class breach can have a threaded feed neck attached eliminating the need for the cheap plastic straight elbow. Lapco makes a nice straight elbow that could work but still adds considerable length. Since my hopper won't fit directly over the feed tube the next best thing is the short clamping feed neck that fits a stock breach.
Ahhh, I see what you meant now. I misunderstood and thought you were trying to run a hopper with the SC feed block, which obviously doesn't make any sense. Yes, the clamping feedneck for the SC body is part number 9023/9033 - $25 from CCI.

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If you get the chance to shoot a nice Sniper or a CCM you will learn what a light pump stroke is.
LOL, yeah, I've had the chance to shoot both... once or twice. It's why I gave the thumbs up to the suggestion of going with a CCM versus the Phantom for OC play. I used to run a Sniper as my primary for quite a few years back in the early nineties. Back then, the old Snipers were like an anvil compared to the weight of a Phantom, but had a definite performance edge. These days, for SC play I'll always opt for a Phantom, but for OC play, I'd take a CCM any day.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Although I really like the T2 and 6.5 I'm having a hard time separating with my $. Lets face it, they are probably half the weight of my WGP Snipers. Maybe after my tax return in the spring. I'm going to have to sell something just so my wife won't give me the evil eye when yet another paint gun goes into my collection.

I know Phantoms are not the nicest guns out there but they are my favorite.
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:09 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Open class questions

I was playing around with what I have on hand and took my favorite VSC Phantom

And did this
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...psc783dafe.jpg

I learned a few things. First I don't want a gas through grip or normal bottom line. The length of pull is just to short with my 13cc/3000psi and my 45cc/4500psi tanks. The drop forward reversed fits me quite well. Second it's not difficult but takes longer than I'd like to switch breaches and change the stock and 12 gram changer for the bottom line. Not very practical to routinely change at the field. My old VL200 fits over the vertical feed nicely, just needs a hose clamp. But I would much rather be using my 50 or 100 round hopper.

I very rarely play with just one gun all day, usually 2 or 3 different stock pumps. If I do play with just one it's this generally this Phantom set up as stock class. That gun always goes to the field with me. So now I think what I really want is another VSC Phantom, throw my ugly bottom line on it and exchange the stock class tube for a clamping feed neck.

Last edited by 1shot; 11-19-2013 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Well, seeing as I have tinkered with lower pressure Phantoms a bit I'll chime in.

The issue with running lower pressure is internal valve volume. VSC valves and back bottle valves can run fine up to around 650 PSI, maybe a smidge less, but under that you start to starve the marker and you will lose velocity and consistency if you go lower and don't add volume. I have successfully run my Phantom at 450 PSI, but that was after modding the stock valve for larger volume.

I'm currently running mine at 470 PSI with light main spring, no valve spring, RTR Gargoyle valve with no insert, ported TPC, stock power tube and a SSC fluted hammer. I get a very consistent 285 FPS with the TPC set at about the middle of its adjustment range. Running no valve spring has not had any negative effects and the pressure is more than enough to seal the valve without farting or venting.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:30 AM   #16 (permalink)
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That's cool! ^^^^ I recently retired an ANS GenX2 reg for the latest CP reg (on my Sniper). Every time I get a new toy the first thing I do is rip it apart. I noticed that about 2/3-3/4 of the reg (on the output side) is just empty space. I assumed this was to work as a low pressure chamber. I think this reg could easily double(if not more) the volume of a Phantom valve body.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:03 AM   #17 (permalink)
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That larger post-regulator space will definitely help a lot. You just need to open up the flow path between the reg and the power tube as well.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:55 AM   #18 (permalink)
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. Back then, the old snipers were like an anvil compared to the weight of a phantom, but had a definite performance edge. .
??????

:rotfl:
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Old 11-19-2013, 03:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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??????

:rotfl:
Jeff likes to humiliate and laugh at me on internet forums, and I like to humiliate and laugh at him on paintball fields. It's simply how men from our generation express our love for each other, and as far as all of you know, we are NOT gay!
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Originally Posted by Slim
There's playing paintball with a stock-class gun, and then there's playing stock-class paintball. Big difference.
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:23 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I don't know, Jeff does pack meat for living.
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