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Old 11-17-2013, 10:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Open class questions

So I already own 3 stock class Phantoms and an extra vert open class breach. I'm already planning my next Phantom. I'm thinking open class using a stock class breach to reduce the height of the hopper and either a vertical reg or possibly creating a gas through grip.

I have a spring kit though I've never used it. If I use a reg how low can I drop the operating pressure? I would be tempted to try to use the light main and valve springs to reduce the force needed to pump the gun. Would I gain much with the reg? To be honest I've been fairly content with stock springs and 12grams, this would be running on air.
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Really, and this is just my opinion, the reg isn't very useful for HPA. It mainly serves to even out the inconsistencies in CO2 based on the weather.

That's just me, though.
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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That's kind of what I always thought too. I thought maybe it would be needed with light springs. I'm thinking that a light valve spring might cause the valve to pop open when pumped. I had that issue with a hammer, it's very annoying. That alone makes me just want to stick with stock springs.
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Check SSC(SuperStanchyCustoms) he has done gas through grip and flutd hammers etc he likes Phantoms.
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I need to rip one of my Phantoms apart to see what it really entails. If it looks like I can get it done with the drill press I'll try it myself, if not I may have to have a custom shop do it.
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Old 11-18-2013, 02:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
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If you go through the archives splattttttt managed to get a phantom down to a 500(ish) psi operating range and shoot 280(ish) fps using HPA if I recall correctly. Given the already reasonable efficiency of a phantom I'm not sure there's really any gain in doing this except just for the sake of doing it. If you're looking to make a Phantom as quiet as possible, then I think there are other, more reliable ways of doing it. Just stick with the stock springs unless you need to make changes to have a suitable shooting speed. Other than getting rid of the return spring, I think you'd be hard pressed to note the subtle difference in spring strength during actual play.

The "Project Leprechaun" thread in the Customs forum is a good read if you're looking to eke out the absolute max in 12g efficiency. Not really the question you asked though.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1shot View Post
I'm thinking open class using a stock class breach to reduce the height of the hopper
I'm not sure I understand how using a SC body will reduce the height of a hopper for OC play. You still need some sort of feed neck that attaches to the body in order to use a hopper, so why wouldn't you just use a CCI OC body?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1shot View Post
and either a vertical reg or possibly creating a gas through grip.
You can configure regs and stabilizers in many different positions and places on the gun and tank. Out of curiosity, is there a specific reason why you want a vertical reg?

Also out of curiosity, what is your goal in running a gas-through grip? Gas-through grips don't offer any performance gains, so other than pure aesthetics, I'm not sure what the point would be. The gas-through grip mods I have seen seemed to have made maintenance and disassembly far more difficult than the factory set ups which negates the whole simplicity aspect of the gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1shot View Post
I have a spring kit though I've never used it. If I use a reg how low can I drop the operating pressure? I would be tempted to try to use the light main and valve springs to reduce the force needed to pump the gun. Would I gain much with the reg? To be honest I've been fairly content with stock springs and 12grams, this would be running on air.
Regulators and stabilizers serve a specific purpose. If your goal is to run low pressure air, then simply purchase the reg that will fit your needs. The Palmer's Fatty is designed as a low pressure reg, just like PPS offers regs for HPA use. On some systems you may need two regs to get to the pressure you need - one on the tank, and one on the gun. You need to determine what pressure will work best for your needs and purchase from there.

Despite what you may have been told/read, springs are not the "end all" solution to efficiency, and never have been. Nelson-based springs offer a limited range of performance, and that's it. I'm not sure what the value would be trying to reduce the force needed to pump the gun, as the Phantom doesn't really have a difficult/hard pump stroke. I do know that you do not want to run a light valve spring. Weak valve springs = leaky valves and poor efficiency, especially with 12 grams.
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Let's see...seeking open class pump running on air with light pump stroke...solution: not a phantom!

Have you considered whether it's time to add a used CCM to your arsenal?
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. PhunkyPants View Post
Let's see...seeking open class pump running on air with light pump stroke...solution: not a phantom!

Have you considered whether it's time to add a used CCM to your arsenal?
And there you go.
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. PhunkyPants View Post
Let's see...seeking open class pump running on air with light pump stroke...solution: not a phantom!

Have you considered whether it's time to add a used CCM to your arsenal?
If I had anything to complain about my Phantom (which I don't) it would be the "stiffness" of the pump stroke. Any Nelson based gun will never be as easy to pump as my Sterling STP Jubilee, any of my Proline Sterling's or a CCM, but with the accuracy and ease of use it just goes into my rotation. My Phantom is my dedicated SC Gun.

just my .02
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