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Old 03-06-2008, 06:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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An idea just popped into my head...

Which seems brilliant, at least to me.

Anyway, A few people have wanted a CCM .45 frame for semi-auto cockers. The problem is, there is no timing rod hole. What if you didnt need one?

I was looking at stroker and blazer frame assemblies, and an idea popped into my head. What if the 3-way was located inside the frame? I've been thinking of economical ways to make this work, and I came up with this:

Instead of having the trigger activate the 3 way, I could create a rod that travels to the back of the sear (through the sear spring or through some other method). That way, when you trip the sear, the remainder of the trigger pull can be used to activate the 3-way, as the sear continues to move after releasing the hammer.

Timing can be achieved by the same method, lengthening or shortening the length of the rod by twisting a section of the rod. As far as hose placement goes, You could route the hoses through the timing rod hole in the VA, and you could feed it through the rubber grip area, as done by palmers.

I just looked inside my .45 frame, and it seems like this is an extremely feasible plan.The spring guide is angled such that there would be no clearance issues at all, with a rod going through the middle of the spring, the 3 way would end up on the very front of the cavity.

Now, I'll draw up a plan later on when I have more time, but right now i'm just looking for helpful criticism and suggestions.

EDIT: Wow I just messed the title up bad. If anyone could fix it...

EDIT2: Diagram (rough sketch made in paint):

Last edited by Andrewliu6294; 03-06-2008 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think you're looking at having trouble finding a 3 way to fit in there along with the sear and springs and also getting all the trigger geometry to work.
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think theres more than enough room for a STO 3-way to fit comfortably. I'm drawing up a diagram as we speak that should clear things up quite a bit.

EDIT: added a sketch.

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Old 03-06-2008, 07:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Looks way too complicated to get the sear to actuate the 3 way. Besides don't you need the 3 way to actuate before the sear releases the hammer?
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:07 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Looks way too complicated to get the sear to actuate the 3 way. Besides don't you need the 3 way to actuate before the sear releases the hammer?
I'm pretty sure the sequence goes: the hammer releases, then the 3-way actuates to recock the hammer. At least, thats how I time my guns.

It doesn't really seem that complicated to me. hm... Instead of having the top of the trigger push the 3-way rod, the bottom of the sear is now doing it. One issue just popped into my mind though, how to get the 3-way rod to return? A small penspring mounted at the end between the bottom of the frame and the rod may work, but that'll require some further refining.

I would be working on a prototype as well, but I dont have a spare frame, nor do I have a 3-way.
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The only problem is if there is enough travel in the sear to activate the three way. I had always though about something like this but with a spring return on the x-way and a simple push rod to the back of the trigger.....basically a horizontal version of what you have.
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The only problem is if there is enough travel in the sear to activate the three way. I had always though about something like this but with a spring return on the x-way and a simple push rod to the back of the trigger.....basically a horizontal version of what you have.
I dont want to reply to every suggestion right after you guys post them , but...

I've gotten a ST bomb 3-way to just about 2mm of travel for full activation. If the sear moves more than 2mm to before the trigger reaches its full travel, theres no problem there.
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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This might be useful...
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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This might be useful...
Nope - that's a 3 way (1 input, 1 output, 1 exhaust), and he needs a 4-way (1 input, 2 outputs, 1 exhaust).

Cockers and other such closed bolt mechanical guns use a 4-way which is commonly called a 3-way due to the 3 hoses attached to the 4-way.

Basically he wants to activate a 4-way with the sear, which I have a feeling will not work that well - very hard to run hoses from the frame to the front of the gun, and the delay inherent in such long hoses will definitely hamper the cycling unless he runs dual QEV's.

Better off with a bellcrank arrangement like a PPS Stroker - easier to set it up, time, etc.

He's on the right track - definitely use a Bomb, or other such 3-ring shaft 4-way.

Jordan
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Old 03-07-2008, 01:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I have that set up that Punisher did for a Jackel 90* frame for a Typhoon. Punisher made a custom 3 way for it and it works OK. Timing is a headache.
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