Custom

[joelrf600r]

Eli: A little bit of everything. custom milling, parts, mods, etc. Everything from complete body milling and barrel porting to porting and polishing a valve.

Rspeilgel: Smartass.

Darkninja: read RM229's comment about self-awareness and accepting fate. I believe the large majority of people out there will do it, and I applaud you for doing so. In my opinion though, it's almost the 80/20 rule: 20% of the people cause 80% of the issues. Thankfully MCB is the inverse of that for the most part. I really was venting at the 20% with my comments.

kidneythief: maybe. I'm still in knots over doing that though. It's a no-win situation unless i can convince him otherwise. I think the approach to take is to send it back to him to see how he likes it and then let him decide after seeing it if he wants to send it back for the additional milling.

RM229: Thanks for the support. quoting is tough sometimes, especially when you get the "do whatever works". I have a tendancy to go above and beyond so i wind up doing stuff for less than i should. It's funny though: I get requests from some local businesses to make parts, and it's very simple: I charge materiel plus $40/hr machine/assembly time. That's about $25-30/hr less than the local shops. What that also means is that I don't charge for planning, and very little for setup. (except for any materiel needed to make a jig) A good example, i've got a company near me that makes restoration parts for old cars. They have a set of brakeline/fuelline benders and jigs that they want me to make several sets of. the mounting plates? easy. the stops? easy. the bender wheels in custom diameters? need to go get a set of full radiused form tools for the lathe in the four diameters i need so I can begin to cut the wheels correctly. Looks like it's gonna be close to $120 to get them made in HSS. Not gonna charge them for it, but they're also expecting about 8 hours labor. Not too bad for a little cash on the side, eh?

--J

[Flatline's Up!]

Been there, doing that on a daily basis.

FYI On the Underground Forum we've got a Business Network subform for networking/griping/answers etc. Feel free to PM me if you're interested.

The customer is not always right. When I do anything there are always two people that have to be involved and have to understand/like and live with the mods, the customer and myself. If both can't come to an agreement on some issue, I don't do it. My name and my companies name are attached to that work forever. I won't make something unsafe, and I won't mod something to the point it works less well than it did before. (like the unsupported bolt you mention).

Quote high: Refunds are a lot easier than charging more.

*I think quoting is the worst part of the biz myself...

Best of luck man,
Britt
Underground Mod Shop

[Emerald Wolf]

I think the main problem with guys like Pun and Doc is they are too nice...and so sometimes bite off a bit more than they can chew (as far as volume, they have the skill, time is an issue).

I applaude you guys that do this. Had I room for the machinery and time to do it, I'd do it myself....But that's a ways off...the evil bane of us all, Budget, doesn't allow it at this time....

I really feel for you as far as the quoting prices. Ppl don't realize just how much a decent machine tool really costs....They are used to seeing the cheap crap at Home Depot and think a Southbend or a Bridgeport is going to price similarly. You're right, these things also take time to be done right. When time and effort have honestly gone into something, you can tell.

Catchya on the Flip Side.....

Emerald Wolf -- keep it up...

[BigOldSkool]

YEah.. welcome to the wonderfull world of custom paintball items...

I had a few interesting experiences over the past year.

1) I was making under cocking kits for phantoms , I built them to work with my fathers pre-2k VSC and my 2k6 Speedline.. Out the door the oarts were clocked right and basically bolt on.. I had an irate customer send me an email " THIS POS DOESNT FIT!!!! FIX IT!!!!!! " Guy sent the kit back I put in on another third phantom that belongs to my coworker thinking maybe it was my guns.. nope worked right... asked the kid to send me his gun so I can figure out what the hell was up.. and the entire frame was twisted like a fat guy jumped up and down on it.. I gave the kid his money back and my Mod buddy on PBN gave him a vacation for harrassing me on PBN.. Ironically it was a blue gun.. I have BAD luck with blue things..

2) I was contracted out to build a custom sniper... I never gave a time line because I had to source out parts from people I knew in the industry and it was a "when they get to it they will get it to me " sort of thing.. So all I did was say final price will be $XXX Just give me the time to sort things out... well I had rainman do a rush job on the anno of the gun.. which is stellar for such a quick turn around.. I still have to toss you a beer for that man!... Well I get the gun done and I get the " Well I dont have the money will you take trades? " Perhaps maybe.. but trades dont pay for car insurance , new tools , and beer budgets.. So now many months later.. I have a customers custom gun that he no longer has any interest in and I have no need for.... yay! And yes he is a member here and If I just got under your skin.. Im sorry but its a sore point in bussiness for me...

Rainman... please let me know when your open for bussiness again I have a need for a strange anno job and a feed neck adapter for a timmy.. its a quicky.. lathe something out to spec and thread for an angel or any OEM feed neck thread really

[blackrain]

I feel for all you guys. Honestly Joel. use your right judgment. Your the machinest you know what's right.
Rainman,well he just rapes me every chance he gets lol, but he knows what I want even when I don't lol. I give him a ball park thought and he runs with it. He and I talk on an idea and sometimes we agree and sometimes not. Then I just get "send the damed thing I know what you want" (sometimes Rainman scares me lol).
Kidney thief,sorry about bailing on you. Eventually you'll make something for me. I will still give you the barrel,I have no need for it. I'm still looking for it lol. It's out in my shop.
BigOldSchool, I feel for you.
Flatline's up, your good in my book. Did you get the parts and do you have two barrels? I agree with your statement about the customer. Note Rainman's paragraph lol.

I use alot of other people to do work as well. Anodizers, machinest(the big 4 never again). To be honest with the exception of two others (not the big 4),I would only use you guys for my machining. Cause I know when you quote me a time frame it's gonna happen. Oh Claudio,my accountant wants you SSN so I can claim you on this yrs taxes lol.
Later,
Blackrain

[Deus Machina]

I've done a few things for money, and I personally haven't charged for much more than the materials. Of course, these people know full well it's a hobby for me, and won't be as good or as quick as an actual shop. I don't think I could deal with doing this as a full-time job. Heck, giving quotes on frames at my job when a *computer* does all the math sucks bad enough. And, then, when someone's a jerk, I can just add on labor.

And I still get some wicked swirly problems. Can't figure how to get rid of them. Need to get a proper twin-dial tram dealie and try that.

Considering my vice is centered well and I *hate* redoing it, I really don't have to spend much time in setup. Cleanup is another matter.

[MarkT]

Joel, the issues you are seeing aren't unique to marker customizing. For the first 20 years of my career I wrote custom software and saw the same issues on a regular basis.

I always insisted on getting paid as progress was being made and all expense money was paid up front. Every time somebody did something stupid I just charged them more and hoped they got so mad they never called me again.

With some customers I gave out a list of things not to do and how much I was going to charge when they did it. Number one on the list was that every time they asked me why I charge so much my rate would go up $5 an hour.

[joelrf600r]

Originally Posted by blackrain

Claudio,my accountant wants you SSN so I can claim you on this yrs taxes.

The sign of a GREAT customer!

--J

[Invictus]

I have found this thread very informative, and true. As such I posted, and linked it over at the A-5 Operators forum. Perhaps by me doing this, it will result in one less stressfull custom project for all of you with those magical modding fingers....