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Old 04-17-2014, 03:08 PM   #1661 (permalink)
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So are you guys just teasing us with this or can we expect to see a drop in* system in the future produced maybe by Lurker? (*drop in for Phantoms and other similar valve train guns)
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:16 PM   #1662 (permalink)
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Did you read our posts on the subject?

Regarding redux and stock nelly, these components would likely still change closing force but good luck getting major improvements with *any* valve which dumps 12 gram charge directly into the valve opening. Totally non ideal... You'd be better off tuning for liquid I bet.

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Old 04-17-2014, 04:05 PM   #1663 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ApoC_101 View Post
Did you read our posts on the subject?

Regarding redux and stock nelly, these components would likely still change closing force but good luck getting major improvements with *any* valve which dumps 12 gram charge directly into the valve opening. Totally non ideal... You'd be better off tuning for liquid I bet.
I've read all of them but may have gotten lost in the science.

For my redux I used a brass valve insert as a diffuser and noticed a large jump in shots. Prior to the insert it was blowing snow out in full 12gs and after the insert - no snow. I'll look into a back bottle asa for this valve then.
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:57 PM   #1664 (permalink)
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I thought a bit more about the "too much closing force" issue.


With the rear bore (drill hole) of the Phantom, we can set up a 2 stage restrictor as well. This would have a large, CO2 limiting restriction on the very small bore (.203 diameter or so) AND a large hat with much LESS restriction.


This allows you to further decouple the gas/liquid limitation from the closing force requirement - you can have a massive pressure delta across the much smaller hole in the small bore, and then a secondary restriction in the valve chamber itself that acts as a "sail" to provide any additional closing force that might be needed to get efficiency up.



This is just assuming we can't get velocity with my design as drawn, full open or even with additional holes - at some point you have so much flow that you risk Liquid CO2 entraining again.

A staged approach is just as easy to machine and has an additional decoupling benefit between flow and closing force. If you relax the requirement to be an o-ring groove as well, you definitely get a slight volume benefit as well.

A 4-40 screw can still be used as the primary flow adjuster, then the "sail OD" becomes your secondary restriction.


I am certain this implementation is versatile enough to give maximum performance, at least from valve dynamics. It might leave 5 shots on the table, but I'd say with even a small amount of tuning we can break 500J in this configuration.
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:58 PM   #1665 (permalink)
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Also, I would be happy to produce the first batch of ~100 if the prototype results are on point.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:08 PM   #1666 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lurker27 View Post
Also, I would be happy to produce the first batch of ~100 if the prototype results are on point.
Tell you what, if you can achieve the numbers you've been discussing I will be inline to sign up for the production run.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:12 PM   #1667 (permalink)
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I second what the gentleman from Arizona has stated.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:42 PM   #1668 (permalink)
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So I fired Mike an email, the silver spring is 10.4lbs/in. Red and blue springs are +\-15%.

The stock hammer wieghts 1.528oz or 43.318g

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Old 04-17-2014, 08:41 PM   #1669 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manning View Post
I've read all of them but may have gotten lost in the science.
Pardon, Micah, that first comment wasn't directed at you

and yea, the brass .44 insert is def the way to go for starters. I think it can be fitted in a nelly too?
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:12 PM   #1670 (permalink)
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Pardon, Micah, that first comment wasn't directed at you

and yea, the brass .44 insert is def the way to go for starters. I think it can be fitted in a nelly too?
Ah cool. I hoped I didn't miss anything but it's possible for sure.

I bought a tube of brass for the first insert and have some left that I'll try use for the Nelly.
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