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Old 01-12-2011, 05:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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We are already doing 30-40 quite consistant. With a good paint to bore match as consistant as some reged guns.

I can't see "Perfectly consistent" without using liquid co2 or a reg. Many don't want a reg, some do. It was going to be a secret but I seem to be coming out of the closet on all my secrets today so. I have someone designing a reg based on the Sidewinder that will replace the endcap and valve insert in a Gargoyle valve without adding more than 1/2-3/4" to the total length of the valve. My main goal was consistency not going to low pressure (maybe "medium pressure")

I think that with the right design we can hit 50-60 very consistant shots maybe more.
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Since this thread started with boobs what are we supposed to derail it with?
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Have Blue View Post

You might be able to do a Nelson analogue to the Maddmann by sticking a wave spring between the retainer and the powertube flange - by moving the valve spring out of the valve chamber, you could go insane with volume reduction.
DING DING DING! We have a winner!!!!
Kinda like this...

I love your way of thinking Michael.

That would be sooo easy to do.
To that I would also like to share with you an image which represents the WGP Ranger valve assembly.
What needs to be noted here is the way the seal and the retaing not come together while in the closed position...


Now picture it with out the valve spring, in the way HaveBlue mantioned, and we may be onto something.
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THE-SHOOTIST Anyone chubbin' like me for this?
mailmanmike Since Monday! That's more than 4 hours though, so according to those cialis ads I should see my doctor.
tlane77 I think for a non-chemical chubby it's 6 hours before its time to see a doctor. So you should be good for another couple hours.
splattttttt I wasn't goin to google "chubbin" because I assumed it had to do with fat. The lard type, not the fun stuff. But what ever feelings Jeff's experiencing, then they must be of the fun like stuff...
tlane77 He's got a woody for your woods.
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I agree this sounds like a really good idea.

In theory that would surely leave the cupseal the biggest choke point in the system.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaD View Post
Since this thread started with boobs what are we supposed to derail it with?
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Greenmtnphantom View Post
I agree this sounds like a really good idea.

In theory that would surely leave the cupseal the biggest choke point in the system.
Until the cup seal is ball shaped at least Probably the most innovative cup seal design to date.
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THE-SHOOTIST Anyone chubbin' like me for this?
mailmanmike Since Monday! That's more than 4 hours though, so according to those cialis ads I should see my doctor.
tlane77 I think for a non-chemical chubby it's 6 hours before its time to see a doctor. So you should be good for another couple hours.
splattttttt I wasn't goin to google "chubbin" because I assumed it had to do with fat. The lard type, not the fun stuff. But what ever feelings Jeff's experiencing, then they must be of the fun like stuff...
tlane77 He's got a woody for your woods.
splattttttt land
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Until the cup seal is ball shaped at least Probably the most innovative cup seal design to date.
Well, basically a conical shape like the Maddman:


I believe there was at least one company who made cocker (or maybe it was spyder) valves that had a large taper angle cupseal (and corresponding taper on the valve face). The concern, however, is that with an increasing angle, the cupseal has a higher propensity to wedge into the valve face.
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Doesn't the trracer use a similar setup? Also, I have to look at my rangers but that setup doesn't look familiar. Maybe it's just been too long. :\
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Doesn't the trracer use a similar setup? Also, I have to look at my rangers but that setup doesn't look familiar. Maybe it's just been too long. :\
According to Bacci that is a trracer valve nut and cup/cupseal.

It really does look like a great design, I want to test it against a CCI standard seal so bad I can taste it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaD View Post
Since this thread started with boobs what are we supposed to derail it with?
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Just a couple details that I feel need to be addressed for posterity's sake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenmtnphantom View Post
Double check with him but I believe Splattttttt found that the longer power tubes provide better efficiency. I've heard though that Trraccers were very efficient.
During one of our many discussions Nish and I had, I mentioned to him that the Lapco power tube fits into the Gargoyle if used at full length.
This theory is somthing worth trying, considering the significant difference in efficiecies between the Gargoyle, and the new Grey Ghost.
Just by the seat of my pants, I can say that it is much quieter if nothing else in comparison to the shorter CCI power tube.
It does seem to make sense that it MAY also help increase both efficiency, and consistencies considering the much linear delivery of air pressure leading towards the paintball.

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Originally Posted by Greenmtnphantom View Post
Jack has gone down to I think 350 or 400psi operating pressure with current designs.
When I first began playing pump several years ago, I immedietly began to experiment with the Nelson internals.
Opening up the TPC in the Phantom was my first effort.
The idea came from the vast mojority promoting the use of the open bolt theory vs. ventury style bolts.
That immediately led to adding a regulator so that I could fine tune velocities, and maintain better consistencies over the chrono simply because I never appreciated unregulated co2, and refused to use it back then, unless I attached a regulator to my asa lol.
Finding the Phantom's ability to work well by means of regulating working pressures was strictly by accident.
What I found was that the Phantom that I was working with, was able to achieve satisfactory field velocities in the range of 260+ fps with just an input pressure of 450psi.
Lowering it any further proved futile, and concluded then that before a Nelson valve can operate at a lower input pressure than 450psi, some serious brain storming would have to take place.
That's why I so glad now that so many of us are willing to put aside our differences, and rehash what was quickly becoming nothing more then us... Beating on that poor dead horse again.
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THE-SHOOTIST Anyone chubbin' like me for this?
mailmanmike Since Monday! That's more than 4 hours though, so according to those cialis ads I should see my doctor.
tlane77 I think for a non-chemical chubby it's 6 hours before its time to see a doctor. So you should be good for another couple hours.
splattttttt I wasn't goin to google "chubbin" because I assumed it had to do with fat. The lard type, not the fun stuff. But what ever feelings Jeff's experiencing, then they must be of the fun like stuff...
tlane77 He's got a woody for your woods.
splattttttt land
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenmtnphantom View Post
According to Bacci that is a trracer valve nut and cup/cupseal.
Whew, I'm not nuts. These are ranger internals.




Maybe a good starting point would be to toss some pics / specs of various internals configurations and their performance? I don't think the ranger is groundbreaking in any way though. Also, both of these guns need some serious tuning and I don't use either regularly if at all.

Just a side note on the trracer internals. I remember having a couple leaky ones and looking for the seals. Because of the unique design there weren't any 3rd party ones and no sources for replacements at that time. One benefit to using a flat seal is the fact that if nothing else you can come up with a seal for it.

Outside of just tuning w/ improving what's been done before, I think both Ty's and HaveBlue's ideas are pretty groundbreaking and have a lot of possibility.
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Originally Posted by senghing27
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Note: While I would love to take credit for his work, I am not associated with Mad Customs!
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Last edited by MaD; 01-12-2011 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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That's why I so glad now that so many of us are willing to put aside our differences, and rehash what was quickly becoming nothing more then us... Beating on that poor dead horse again.
I picked up a Shelaigh while I was in Ireland, it was a short club style one ment as a momento to hang on the wall and save. The saying on it fits quite well here to discribe my commitment and confience in our ability to do this.

"If he moves beat ihim if he doesn't, beat him til he does."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaD View Post
Since this thread started with boobs what are we supposed to derail it with?
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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