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Old 11-02-2011, 07:21 PM   #901 (permalink)
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Fan of EMR
You'll likely give it the most action it's seen since I bought the Gargoyle. No worries just let me know.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:04 PM   #902 (permalink)
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Well y0da, once you're satisfied, I'll take over if neccessary. We'll put the "train" in valvetrain.

Did newmatic intend for these to be test parts, or were they sold to Splattttt?
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:27 PM   #903 (permalink)
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Jack or Brian will have to answer that, I honestly don't know.

But they both know that I have them and that I intend on passing them on for testing once I get the next set of valve components built for it.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:32 PM   #904 (permalink)
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Cool, sounds good.

One concern I have about testing is that we've limited ourselves as far as valve spring tension goes. One of the nice things about tuning Nelsons is that you can easily communicate spring weights, as in "yellow valve, green main."

With this maddmann style of valve, I'm not so sure. Washers can be used to increase tension, perhaps at the risk of reducing overall travel. I'll have to figure out how to run it lighter...maybe make some homemade springs.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:38 PM   #905 (permalink)
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The available travel on them should be adequate even with a couple of washers shimming it. If it turns into a problem with valve travel I'll just turn some tiny spacers that fit into the valve nut instead of against the power tube flange.

I can always make any subsequent versions of the valve nut with a larger diameter and deeper bore to take a wider range of springs. You lose the o-ring that I put there, but that isn't a big deal anyways. Using standard springs from a reputable industrial supplier should make sure that consistent springs are readily available.
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:08 PM   #906 (permalink)
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Honestly I don't think pressure escaping through the valve nut is a huge concern as long as tolerances are tight. I'd absolute favor adjustability - being able to adjust valve tension would probably save more gas than the o-ring in any case.

Oh and for what it's worth, according to this post by newmatic, ideal operating pressure falls around 350-450 psi.
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:37 PM   #907 (permalink)
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Oh and for what it's worth, according to this post by newmatic, ideal operating pressure falls around 350-450 psi.
I must have missed that lol. Better than 250psi I'll bet.
Russ, Brian surprized me when he told me he was sending his kit. Once I discovered that it could actually operate at lower pressures, I asked if it was okay for y0da900 could have a crack at it. I'm sure he'd be happy to know you're going to test it. But it might be nice to let him know. It's his.
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THE-SHOOTIST Anyone chubbin' like me for this?
mailmanmike Since Monday! That's more than 4 hours though, so according to those cialis ads I should see my doctor.
tlane77 I think for a non-chemical chubby it's 6 hours before its time to see a doctor. So you should be good for another couple hours.
splattttttt I wasn't goin to google "chubbin" because I assumed it had to do with fat. The lard type, not the fun stuff. But what ever feelings Jeff's experiencing, then they must be of the fun like stuff...
tlane77 He's got a woody for your woods.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:11 AM   #908 (permalink)
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Just ran some offhand tests with the y0da valve vs. a normal valve, both using a Lapco #6 PT, Lapco non fluted hammer, 14" Kaner kit with blowtest sized paint and open face bolt.

It's nothing precise, and just constant air at full unregged pressures, so no efficiency or LP testing for now.

The y0da valve had/has some spring binding issues. I think the recess for the spring needs to be made wider, plus some of the spring coils overlap at the top and bottom, so it can't really collapse fully. I ended up adding an oring under the washer to bring things level (it actually stuck out slightly, which shortened the valve throw) and it got rid of some of the binding. The throw length ended up at 3mm. Both the stock Nelson valve and non shimmed y0da valves were about 4.3mm throw.

I also experienced some slight leaking, and had to get in there and clean and reseat the teflon seal. Those things are a bitch to get into the cone, too. I'm wary of the aluminum on teflon seal, as it seems like it'll be more fragile than a rubber on steel or brass seal as seen in other Nelsons.

The valve collar has a significantly looser fit than the nelson ones I have, and there is some wobble noticeable when you push the powertube back and forth. I also noticed that there is some binding unless you evenly distribute pressure (finger pushing PT down vs using a hammer to push it down), which probably has to do with the loose fit in the collar.

I used a Lapco #6 PT for both tests, and tried to find a spring that most closely approximated the one used in the y0da valve. The one I ended up using in the standard Nelson valve turned out to be slightly weaker, but not by a huge amount. By subjective feel, the standard valve has a constant spring pressure, while the y0da valve feels like it bottoms out quickly and tenses up at the end of the throw.

1st was the y0da valve on HPA, ~850psi.
The first three shots were in the 240s, fourth was 259, and the rest came out in the high 260s, mid 270s. I think this may have to do with seating the conical spring. I noticed when manipulating it by hand, sometimes it would bind up and eventually work itself loose again.

on unregged co2, FPS was around 310-315.

2nd was the normal valve with a relatively weaker valve spring on HPA.

co2 - high 290s, mid 300s. About ~10-15 fps lower than y0da valve.

HPA - consistently high 250s- mid 260s. Again, about 10-15 fps lower than the y0da valve once the spring worked itself into place.




So, overall I believe we are seeing a definite improvement over a standard Nelson setup. Keep in mind that the y0da spring was shimmed slightly, which meant the ports barely cleared to full capacity, (~40% shorter throw compared to normal valve) and the standard Nelson had a bit weaker valve spring.

[edit]

I decided to try and run the y0da valve at full throw length, so I removed the extra oring under the spring washer and bent the last coil of the spring so that it wasn't "clicking" or binding. This brought throw up to the normal ~4.3mm, which is about the same as my standard valve.

On HPA, velocity was in the high 260s, mid 270s. One shot went as high as 286, others were lower around 250. This was using the same paintball for all the shots. I think spring kinking may be an issue. The valve started leaking from the cupseal about about 10 shots, but I realized I had forgotten the ring retainer on the cupseal. Replaced that and it sealed up fine again.

With co2, velocity went back to the 300s. Still saw some inconsistency, from 299 to 336. Most shots were around the 310-315 mark, though.

Overall, it seems that the extra throw length and slightly lessened valve spring didn't actually result in any more velocity. 336 was definitely the exception. I'd like to see how the valve would act with a valve spring that isn't occasionally binding up, or more room for the conical spring to collapse.
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Old 11-03-2011, 08:12 AM   #909 (permalink)
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Just out of curiosity Russ as to why you chose not to go with the lightest possible main spring?
I think doing so might lessen valve spring fluctuation and void the use of shims.
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THE-SHOOTIST Anyone chubbin' like me for this?
mailmanmike Since Monday! That's more than 4 hours though, so according to those cialis ads I should see my doctor.
tlane77 I think for a non-chemical chubby it's 6 hours before its time to see a doctor. So you should be good for another couple hours.
splattttttt I wasn't goin to google "chubbin" because I assumed it had to do with fat. The lard type, not the fun stuff. But what ever feelings Jeff's experiencing, then they must be of the fun like stuff...
tlane77 He's got a woody for your woods.
splattttttt land
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:37 AM   #910 (permalink)
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I just went with a medium weight spring I had been using for playing that gun. I had it chronoed to about 275 on 12 grams with different paint last week. I can try lighter hammer springing later on, for sure.
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