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Old 09-22-2013, 08:10 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Auto-cocking Hammer 7 Build

I want to try to build a semi-auto Hammer 7 marker per the suggestion of someone on this board commenting on my interest in First Strike autococker. I don't know if this has been done yet and its something I think would be pretty fun to make. I don't have anywhere near the tools, machining, or experience to pull this off myself, so I figured I'd ask you guys for some advice and a local machine shop to realize it. My understanding of paintball guns/cocker is limited so bear with me.

I'm basically just thinking of making something like the old school Auto-Trracers or "chameleon kits". Which I'm guessing were the precursors to the autococker??

Anyway you can see what I'm talking about below. (Not my photo/gun.)






So what I want to know is what parts do I need to realize this? The way I understand this is I'll need basically all the stuff on a cocker front block.

Low Pressure Regulator
3-way
Ram
Something to connect the 3-way's actuator to the trigger.
Something to connect the ram to one side of the bolt.
Something to mount these parts to the gun itself.

The way I see this done in these pictures is the LPR is connected to the ASA connection. Is this air connection something I could have drilled into the Hammer 7's stock ASA connection or is there a part I can buy that has this already?

Is there a particular type/size/powerlevel of ram that I should use? I was looking at getting one from here: WGP Autococker Pneumatic Rams & Parts or there is an entire kit of all palmer's stuff, here: Palmer Autococker Micro Pro Kit -Reg,Ram,3way - e-Paintball.

Depending on the shop's interest in the project, I want to have a different trigger made all together to mimic one of a true cocker so I could use just a standard actuator rod, but I don't know if that will work. I don't like the 3way location in the picture above and I figure a different trigger/actuator will allow me to move the 3way elsewhere and out of the way. Though in all likelyhood a custom actuator rod will need to be made.

Lastly, how do I go about "timing" this whole thing? Or is that just a cocker thing? All my cocker issues and 'timing' have been done by a local paint shop so I'm a little out of my element with this. Do I just slowly increase the LPR pressure until it cocks?

I appreciate any/all help. I think this should be pretty badass once it's all done. I'm also thinking about having the machine shop guys look at the body and shortening the distance from the barrel to the round. Currently there is a sort of 'chamber' where the round sits in the Hammer 7 which has a detent and I feel it would be more accurate if the round was seated in the barrel itself like a cocker/Trracer. I basis this theory on merely the fact that my BT-Trracer is more accurate than my Hammer7, and it pushes the FS round into the barrel.

Thank guys! Any input appreciated. Obscenities too.
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I had similar thoughts of doing this myself using a SMAV valve instead of a Cocker 3way as its more compact and would probably fit in the gripframe behind the trigger eliminating the 3way linkage.You would still have to have an adjustment on the plunger like the 3way rod for timing,pre and post travel trigger adjustments might work
There would still be timing issues to get the sear,bolt and air release to work together properly.
Curious to see what you come up with
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Old 09-22-2013, 03:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Those kits were not pre-cursors to the autococker. They were adaptations and weren't all that great. There was another kit that went on like a cocker front block. I never tried one but I suspect they worked a bit better. Might check on Bacci's site to see if he still has any.
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by scottallen1986 View Post
Is this air connection something I could have drilled into the Hammer 7's stock ASA connection or is there a part I can buy that has this already?
like this? Tank Extension [CAHWPP46] - $20.00 : Palmers Pursuit Shop, Where Custom Still Means Something

also the trigger in your pic is from a chameleon kit. it's just a sideways extender rod from the trigger shoe pressing the 3 way. you'd probably have to drill a hole in the trigger to use a traditional autococker's method.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Autotraccer was a better concept, it was a custom slide trigger frame for the nelson.





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Old 09-22-2013, 09:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Consider using a Sovereign grip frame. It has the 3/4 way attached to the frame, so the timing issue is a "set it once and forget it" proposition. Consider mounting the ram on the Picatinny/Weaver rail, and engaging both of the pump handle screws. Make sure there is a guide in the ram system, or binding will occur.

Yes, I have thought this through, carefully. I was working on this, and then my real job tried to work me to death, again. :/

Ty
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Bacci's has some auto-trracers still, but I don't think they will fit the H7. I think using the same concept but different parts will be needed due to the magwell.

Thanks Heinous! That's what I was looking for though I'm now thinking I might go with a male palmer stab reg as it will allow to put a reg on the gun and power the cocking system using the port that normally is used by a gauge. I'll just have to bottom line it.

I like the Sovereign grip frame idea. Though I don't know how I would get that to fit the H7. I don't think I have that kind of technical ability. Dual pumping with a single ram? I like that idea. That is something I'll have to look into with the machine shop. I did find a 'auto-trracer ram to bolt linkage' on Bacci's that might work too if I do go with just one side. I agree that a ram guide will be necessary.

Ok so another issue is that the pressure required to pump the H7 right now is really strong. Is it just a question of changing out the springs? And where would I find something like this? I've seen a lot guys mod their H7's to be almost bolt action so they must have reduced the spring tension as I can't do that with just my fingers on mine. Springs are too stiff.



Any idea where I can get less stuff springs to reduce the pressure the ram will have to generate to pump the gun?

Thanks again guys!
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottallen1986
...snip...

I like the Sovereign grip frame idea. Though I don't know how I would get that to fit the H7.
Look at how the 3/4 way is placed on the grip frame and consider using that setup instead of a "traditional" Autococker style 3/4 way setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottallen1986
...snip...

Ok so another issue is that the pressure required to pump the H7 right now is really strong. Is it just a question of changing out the springs? And where would I find something like this? I've seen a lot guys mod their H7's to be almost bolt action so they must have reduced the spring tension as I can't do that with just my fingers on mine. Springs are too stiff.
First off, sweet spot the input regulator. We have found that the H7s seem to like around 950 psi input. I suggest using a good adjustable regulator and then checking the output pressure with an accurate gauge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottallen1986
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/s...ernalparts.jpg

Any idea where I can get less stuff springs to reduce the pressure the ram will have to generate to pump the gun?

Thanks again guys!
Look into whether or not a standard Nelson spring kit will work. There is the possibility that cut down Spyder springs may function also.

Ty
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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how about you put the ram where the pump guide and return spring are, and just bolt it to the pump handle because it's already 2 sided?
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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heinous, could you expand on that idea? Would I just reverse the lines the 3way puts out into the ram so the ram is pulling to cock the gun and pushing to fire? I like this idea. It would not only look cool seeing the pump arm move on its own but it would have the advantage of connecting to both sides of the bolt.

tymcneer, would changing out the valve spring to a lower stiffness allow me to run a lower pressure into the gun? I've seen you talk about the need for 950psi, but the reg I want to use is a palmer male stab that goes to max of 800. Would reducing the valve spring stiffness to a lower strength allow me to run 750-800 psi?

Ok, I understand your idea of the placement of the 3way similar to the sovereign now. I think I will see if I can maybe fit the whole three way behind the trigger in the handle and run the hose up through the bottom half, or at least partly. If it's too big, I'll probably put it on the outside of the left side above where my thumb is.
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