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Old 11-07-2013, 09:03 PM   #21 (permalink)
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That wasn't an attack; that was a wake up call.

wartex found a problem, and he found a solution. We need more people who do this.

It's not like he doesn't understand the product, or he asked for a refund, or he modified/broke the product and then asked for a refund, or any number of really boneheaded things that the rest of you guys typically pull.

The statement "the majority of users don't have problems" or whatever is false. Any magazine that doesn't lock every time on the first try is a problem. A more accurate statement is, "The majority of users are very eager to overlook the problems." If that's your stance, fine, enjoy your Zetamags.

Time wounds all heels, so let's all just sit back watch how Stark "solves" this problem.


As far as the 20-rd D-mag spring, it sounds great. If Stark says it's too weak, then it sounds perfect. I wish I had known about this when I placed my last order from RAP4. One of my complaints of all of these magazine manufacturers is the fact that they don't offer lighter springs. They'll offer heavier springs for the typical "I'm a paintballer and the only solution I know of is to overpower everything with brute force". But nothing for the other end of the spectrum. By default, they configure the spring pressure to "work" all the time for every user, including the psycho that has to dump paint out of his mags as fast as possible.

What if I don't need a spring that feeds 15bps+ every time? Maybe I max out at 2bps and would prefer a lighter spring that puts less pressure on my paint. Maybe I won't need to throw 10 deformed rounds downrange immediately if I can just get 1 that actually flies straight.

Apparently it's more important to satiate the psychos than the skilled.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:18 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GoatBoy View Post
That wasn't an attack; that was a wake up call.



wartex found a problem, and he found a solution. We need more people who do this.

It's not like he doesn't understand the product, or he asked for a refund, or he modified/broke the product and then asked for a refund, or any number of really boneheaded things that the rest of you guys typically pull.

The statement "the majority of users don't have problems" or whatever is false. Any magazine that doesn't lock every time on the first try is a problem. A more accurate statement is, "The majority of users are very eager to overlook the problems." If that's your stance, fine, enjoy your Zetamags.

Time wounds all heels, so let's all just sit back watch how Stark "solves" this problem.


As far as the 20-rd D-mag spring, it sounds great. If Stark says it's too weak, then it sounds perfect. I wish I had known about this when I placed my last order from RAP4. One of my complaints of all of these magazine manufacturers is the fact that they don't offer lighter springs. They'll offer heavier springs for the typical "I'm a paintballer and the only solution I know of is to overpower everything with brute force". But nothing for the other end of the spectrum. By default, they configure the spring pressure to "work" all the time for every user, including the psycho that has to dump paint out of his mags as fast as possible.

What if I don't need a spring that feeds 15bps+ every time? Maybe I max out at 2bps and would prefer a lighter spring that puts less pressure on my paint. Maybe I won't need to throw 10 deformed rounds downrange immediately if I can just get 1 that actually flies straight.

Apparently it's more important to satiate the psychos than the skilled.
Thanks for your support.

The mags in the video are new right out of the box. I had another one that I bought for a friend. All three had at least one spring either mangle or get in the locking mechanism occasionally causing it not to catch (and **** up the spring).

Last weekend I took my 2 modded zetamags to a field and fired 500 balls thru them. We were practicing running and firing at a target as fast as we could (5 bps+). We used pretty brittle draxxus paint. Not one ball chop (partial feed), not one ball break in the mag and not one failure to lock with rap4 springs.

You are also correct in saying I took great care in loading them super slow and careful because I could tell the springs were crap in the store before I even paid for them, and after I watched some youtube vids about people having issues and a tutorial on loading them.

PS: Regardless of the loading issue, the stock springs are way too hard on paint. SP tried finding a happy medium between rigid springs for FSR and soft ones for spherical, and failed at both.

Last edited by wartex; 11-08-2013 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:40 PM   #23 (permalink)
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According to Facebook, SP are releasing a v2 zeta mag with an upgraded follower for better reliability...
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Old 11-10-2013, 05:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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According to Facebook, SP are releasing a v2 zeta mag with an upgraded follower for better reliability...
So are the V1 guys are out of luck? R&D by mass release?
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:58 PM   #25 (permalink)
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So are the V1 guys are out of luck? R&D by mass release?
Get the rap4 springs. It seems they are changing the catch mechanism but keep the springs. They are dirt cheap and work super reliably.
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Old 11-10-2013, 11:53 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I think they felt that going with the tapered, aka conical or bee hive, springs would allow for the coils to start to nest within themselves as the spring is compressed by the follower. The idea is great considering they were trying to maximize capacity and minimize overall length of the mag.

The binding problem exists with theese springs because they are such a long spring. Due to the design of a tapered spring without some kind of guide, it is easy for it to bend outwards. Once that occurs then the difficulty of latching the follower happens as well as the spring being damaged because it is now binding up and getting bent.

The latch and follower are not the problem, instead I think it is the spring. As mentioned before once it starts to bind up as you are pushing the follower down, the follower and latch are unable to connect with each other. This is because the spring is taking up more space in the mag due to the spring not compressing within itself properly.

The Rap4 springs don't have this problem because they are just a standard, cylindrical spring. This style of spring compresses easier because it shares the same equal outside and inside diameter, giving each coil a shoulder (guide) to sit on.

I do find it surprising that Stark Pursuit released their mags with this style of spring, fully aware that the problem existed. I feel confident in saying this because of the following quote from their website.

Quote:
* NOTE: Pushing the follower down by any means or tools other than with supplied loading rod may damage follower spring and cause malfunction. Do not use excessive force. If follower does not lock on the first attempt, fully retract loading rod and retry. Forcing the follower may permanently damage spring.
The part of that quote I bolded is what leads me to them knowing beforehand about this problem. So instead of idiot proofing their mags by putting in a spring that would never bind, they just rolled with it. I shouldn't have to try and get the follower to latch more than one time when I want to load the mag with paint. It should work flawlessly every time just like my factory mags. I think this is what frustrates several people is that after buying the mag, you still have to buy a different spring to replace the one that is going to give you trouble.

Customers should not have to fix a known problem. For those that haven't ever experienced problems, then I'm glad you haven't. Still, there are plenty others that do have problems with their mags and they are following the instructions just the same as everyone else. I am curious as to what has been done to the follower but I think the problems are still going to be present until they move away from the taper spring and replace it with a cylindrical spring. This doesn't mean that I won't stop purchasing their mags, I just know going in that I'll have to modify it.
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Old 11-10-2013, 11:58 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Thanks for posting this. I have been on the fence about picking up some Zeta mags after reading about all of the issues with them. I may pick some up and install the RAP4 springs since they fix the issue.

Will the RAP4 springs feed FS rounds as well as regular paintballs?
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Old 11-11-2013, 03:16 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by scphantom9195 View Post
Thanks for posting this. I have been on the fence about picking up some Zeta mags after reading about all of the issues with them. I may pick some up and install the RAP4 springs since they fix the issue.

Will the RAP4 springs feed FS rounds as well as regular paintballs?
I haven't tried yet, but you can always install a FS rap4 spring and try it. In fact I will try my own FS springs and will post a new vid.
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Thank you for this, anybody can tell as soon as they take these mags out of the box that the springs are ****. I was so pissed when I got these after being so excited bc the thing sounded so fragile and sounded so cheaply made when i was trying to first lock the spring down. I was sitting there thinking I had to have a defective product bc no way somebody would release something that has these issues. I followed all instructions 100% holding the release in the up position, keeping the mag perfectly vertical so tapered spring would hopefully not bind. If it didn't click I would just pull back and try again, well guess what after about 1 hour of trying on all 3 of my mags without one success I realized that you had to use force to even get the damn things to lock, even though the instructions say not to. There is no way to lock the damn spring down without potentially damaging it. Each time I locked one of these things down I cringed bc I knew I was potentially breaking it and yet there was no way around it. And finally this past weekend one of my springs bound up and stuck halfway up the mag, I'd say I compressed that spring maybe 50 times before it broke, pitiful just pitiful.

Last edited by frotang; 11-14-2013 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 11-14-2013, 03:57 PM   #30 (permalink)
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So I installed the DMAG springs in one of my zetas... Shot a hundred balls in the garden, fast and slow with no breaks or misfeeds yet.

I did notice that the DMAG springs were about an inch shorter than the zetas. Then I took the second zeta spring out and that was a little shorter than the first. These have only seen a few games.
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