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Old 12-22-2016, 03:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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So ive been giving some thought on a mechanism that might work with my bob longs to mechanize them.

This is as far as I've got.. Im not sure if this will make sense to anybody but me, but the basic idea is to modify an autococker 3-way (originally proposed by Dukie in another thread) to run to a dump chamber that piwers the firing cycle. Dukies original proposal, from what i understand, had no method to repressurize the ram sleeve so that the ram was drawn back into the open position. The below diagram should solve that... Kind of...

The only downside I can see with this, is that after the air in the dump chamber pushes the ram into the poppit just enough to cycle, but not enough to hold the valve open, theres going to be a delay repressuring the ram sleeve to open the bolt again until the user releases the trigger. It might not be a problem.. But it also might.

Does anyone understand my post-it note blueprint? Or am I totally out to lunch?



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Old 12-22-2016, 03:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TomsGunShow View Post
So ive been giving some thought on a mechanism that might work with my bob longs to mechanize them.

This is as far as I've got.. Im not sure if this will make sense to anybody but me, but the basic idea is to modify an autococker 3-way (originally proposed by Dukie in another thread) to run to a dump chamber that piwers the firing cycle. Dukies original proposal, from what i understand, had no method to repressurize the ram sleeve so that the ram was drawn back into the open position. The below diagram should solve that... Kind of...

The only downside I can see with this, is that after the air in the dump chamber pushes the ram into the poppit just enough to cycle, but not enough to hold the valve open, theres going to be a delay repressuring the ram sleeve to open the bolt again until the user releases the trigger. It might not be a problem.. But it also might.

Does anyone understand my post-it note blueprint? Or am I totally out to lunch?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...305b1d4755.jpg

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Shoot.. Just realized that the ram will be constantly pressurized forward in above diagram... Back to the drawing board!

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Old 12-22-2016, 04:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Fixed! I think this could work...



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Old 12-22-2016, 07:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I think the old school electros have a greater chance of being around for a while. They used industrial solenoids that you can still order. Some of those industrial applications will have 50 year lifecycles.

As soon as the companies switched to propriety solenoids that's when these markers got limited lifespans (I think smart parts was the first on the shocker sft).

You can still order the karni 3 way solenoid from smc.

Last edited by theangrydragon; 12-22-2016 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 12-22-2016, 11:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The only downside I can see with this, is that after the air in the dump chamber pushes the ram into the poppit just enough to cycle, but not enough to hold the valve open, theres going to be a delay repressuring the ram sleeve to open the bolt again until the user releases the trigger. It might not be a problem.. But it also might.
The plumbing isn't as much a problem as the TIME. It's all about delays, controlling the rate of fill and/or fill volume to trip a valve. I would make one out of big, cheap parts first, one part being a needle valve to control the fill to or from the "dump chamber". LPR pressures need to be high enough to make o-ring friction variations less of a factor. Maybe even try a diaphragm actuator to get away from some of that friction.

Hmm. I wonder if a bourdon tube would help a pulse valve arrangement...
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Old 12-24-2016, 07:11 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm sure Doc knows about it, but lots of solenoids, including PVI Shocker noids, can often be found on ASP's site.
-Yes, but the last time I looked, he had only a few left, and suggested no more were forthcoming. As I recall, some of the other common brands, like the Skinners used in Tribals, were the same- just a handful left, and probably won't be any more.

Also keep in mind that more than a few of the 'noids HB lists don't actually go to any particular paintball gun. He got them for tinkerers who wanted to try making their own marker or converting one.

Quote:
As for AA regs... I believe they're able to use Mag AIR seals if you swap the reg pin over as well.
-'Mag seals themselves were hard to find there for a while. The last time I bought some 3-4 years ago, the only ones I could find were a pack of new-old-stock on eBay. (AGD was out of stock at the time.)

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The one-off stuff for low-volume products, however - you're on your own.
-The thing is, this is to be expected. Yeah, 'Cockers and 'Mags have been around for 25 years (!) and parts are still regularly and commonly available even today (except maybe for new twist-locks We're never gonna see a production run of twist-lock Stella backs, for example ) but they're the exceptions. Most other markers have a few years of lifespan at best- in a lot of cases, we're lucky if the manufacturer sticks around for more than a couple of years.

The hotrod guys go through this all the time. For a certain number of popular models- Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers- yeah, the aftermarket has stepped up to provide the parts you need for that forty-year-old beast, much as they've done to keep the 'Cocker alive.

But if you have a '77 Pinto, or a '65 Corvair, or a '71 International Scout, you're SOL. Common parts, like distributor caps, fan belts and wheel bearings? No problem. Body parts like fenders and bumpers, interior parts like headliners and door panels? Not happening. NOS supplies dried up years ago, and none are popular enough to sustain more than a few trivial repop parts.

It will be interesting to see where things go. My SMG has to be about 30 years old, and I suspect has never had a lick of maintenance done to it, and yet it still works like a champ. On the other hand, I fixed a GenX 'Cocker a third the SMG's age where every seal in the gun had turned to mush, and was totally nonfunctional until I gave it a total rebuild- including the ram and LPR.

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Old 02-07-2017, 08:51 PM   #17 (permalink)
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anything happen with this i would love a mech timmy
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:34 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Well.. I started to try. I ran into problems even just sourcing a pulse valve, then ran into price problems trying to find someone to build that custom 4-way for me instead of getting a pulse valve, then ran into problems finding a project timmy...

For example, I found a timmy in a sorry state of care that was missing the board, eyes, detents, eye covers, bolt, ram and back cap, which the guy wanted $150 for. I tried explaining that my offer of $40 was a good deal for him but he felt like I was trying to rip him off so sent me a string of expletives and low-ball accusations and then never talked to me again.

Since this happened, Ive started a new project of converting the plastic parts on my grey ghost into real maple. Its coming along slowly but nicely.

The whole mech timmy thing has been put on my backburner for now and the forseeable future, unfortunately. I really hope someone else picks this up - but I really doubt it will be.

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Old 02-08-2017, 12:17 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Lame. Ill send you a 2k2 and can possibly make the 4way if you have a print. If that helps. I really want this to happen.
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Old 02-08-2017, 01:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I really want this to happen as well..

My original goal was to have a drop-in system that could convert an existing electronic timmy-style marker into a mech. I have since moved on to thinking that a modified gripframe is the way to go. The grip could then just be a drop-in replacement for any electronic grip on a similar style marker.

Ive even been mulling over some custom trigger assemblies linked to the 4 way that would ensure the ram never goes 'limp' if you were to hold the trigger down. Essentially its a horizontal sear that just flaps over the 4 way piston when you pull the trigger and then resets, waiting for you to release the trigger so that it catches the sear again. It would work - my inner edison told me so - but i would need to collaborate with people that have the technical ability to make this happen.. Which I had started to do earlier, but eventually gave up on because of numerous roadblocks. People around where I live who know how to machine metal want lootttss of money even to just tap a hole. Its crazy.

Ultimately, this project needs more time than I have available right now, and more of a financial investment than I consider (even remotely) reasonable. Lets put it this way - i could buy 2 or 3 brand new G6Rs with what Ive been quoted for just the materials and machine time for one concept prototype.

I would be happy to share my ideas and armcair blueprints with anyone who'd like to take this on, but me making this a reality just isnt in the cards... For now.

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