semi-auto phantom - Page 3

Kyote · 05-14-2008, 05:03 PM

Perhaps instead of a permanently fixed tripper pin as is seen with the rainmaker, you could use maybe a 3/8" long slot, and Use a 10-32 bolt and nut with a small bearing on it to be able to adjust the point where the hammer is released. That way you could fine tune the release point to the individual marker. I would like to use a hinge frame and cocker 3 way in an open bolt configuration. I also think that the delay between trigger pull and firing would be negligible. This would probably be easier on a trracer because you wouldn't need to mill a slot in the body and tap the bolt, but I think we can all agree that a pneutom would be mucho cooler!

HP_Lovecraft · 05-14-2008, 05:55 PM

The main problem with Nelson semi conversions is hammer slap.

The pneumatics push the hammer hard enough that the inertia pushes against the cupseal, causing it to open slightly while the bolt is open. This creates the unique "double pop" that you always here with nelson conversions.

The solution usually used is for a very light hammer, then using springs to create the proper valve dwell. The end result is ineffeciency. In the case of the Rainmaker, the light hammer literally chews itself apart.

The AT85 gets around this issue because the hammer is not pneumatic. It is actuated mechanically.

Kyote · 05-14-2008, 06:06 PM

I've never seen a semi auto nelson conversion in person or video, do you have any links? I have experienced double pop in a nelson when the valve spring is too soft and you slam the hell out of the pump, but with a proper spring set this shouldn't be a problem. I can slam the pump back as hard as I can on my phantom and it doesn't pop. I have experienced this on my trracer with too hard a valve spring and too soft a hammer however.

Tohri · 05-14-2008, 06:39 PM

Try adding an adjustable grub screw to limit the ram's rearward travel, or adjust your ram's mounting point to where the recocking action can't push the valve open, pushing back just enough to latch the hammer.

Kyote · 05-16-2008, 01:57 AM

Auto Tracer Kits

Well I'll be damned, it seems that someone has already done all the work for me. I'm gonna buy a couple of these. Stay tuned.

CamoDeafie · 05-16-2008, 12:25 PM

these are the ones that are prone to problems according to most of the users here....you may wish to analye their operating system and see what you can improve on?

05-14-2008, 05:03 PM	#21 (permalink)
Kyote Rec Poster Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 50	Perhaps instead of a permanently fixed tripper pin as is seen with the rainmaker, you could use maybe a 3/8" long slot, and Use a 10-32 bolt and nut with a small bearing on it to be able to adjust the point where the hammer is released. That way you could fine tune the release point to the individual marker. I would like to use a hinge frame and cocker 3 way in an open bolt configuration. I also think that the delay between trigger pull and firing would be negligible. This would probably be easier on a trracer because you wouldn't need to mill a slot in the body and tap the bolt, but I think we can all agree that a pneutom would be mucho cooler! __________________ Purveyor of the strange, odd, old, and unusual. I buy cheap junk and sell High Quality Used Equipment TASO Boredrop-Sniper II or 2-Hushray II-Splatmaster-PMI Boxer-68 Special-Trracer and more!

05-14-2008, 05:55 PM	#22 (permalink)
HP_Lovecraft MCB Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 2,929	The main problem with Nelson semi conversions is hammer slap. The pneumatics push the hammer hard enough that the inertia pushes against the cupseal, causing it to open slightly while the bolt is open. This creates the unique "double pop" that you always here with nelson conversions. The solution usually used is for a very light hammer, then using springs to create the proper valve dwell. The end result is ineffeciency. In the case of the Rainmaker, the light hammer literally chews itself apart. The AT85 gets around this issue because the hammer is not pneumatic. It is actuated mechanically. __________________ www.montneel.com My Myspace nonsense "the evidence strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam (Smart Parts) could have invented the electronic paintgun" -Garr M. King, U.S. Judge

05-14-2008, 06:06 PM	#23 (permalink)
Kyote Rec Poster Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 50	I've never seen a semi auto nelson conversion in person or video, do you have any links? I have experienced double pop in a nelson when the valve spring is too soft and you slam the hell out of the pump, but with a proper spring set this shouldn't be a problem. I can slam the pump back as hard as I can on my phantom and it doesn't pop. I have experienced this on my trracer with too hard a valve spring and too soft a hammer however. __________________ Purveyor of the strange, odd, old, and unusual. I buy cheap junk and sell High Quality Used Equipment TASO Boredrop-Sniper II or 2-Hushray II-Splatmaster-PMI Boxer-68 Special-Trracer and more!

05-16-2008, 01:57 AM	#25 (permalink)
Kyote Rec Poster Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 50	Auto Tracer Kits Well I'll be damned, it seems that someone has already done all the work for me. I'm gonna buy a couple of these. Stay tuned. __________________ Purveyor of the strange, odd, old, and unusual. I buy cheap junk and sell High Quality Used Equipment TASO Boredrop-Sniper II or 2-Hushray II-Splatmaster-PMI Boxer-68 Special-Trracer and more!

05-16-2008, 12:25 PM	#26 (permalink)
CamoDeafie nelson fanboy Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Monmouth, Oregon Posts: 1,449	these are the ones that are prone to problems according to most of the users here....you may wish to analye their operating system and see what you can improve on? __________________ nothing like the heft of steel nelspots

05-14-2008, 06:39 PM	#24 (permalink)
Tohri Active Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 471	Try adding an adjustable grub screw to limit the ram's rearward travel, or adjust your ram's mounting point to where the recocking action can't push the valve open, pushing back just enough to latch the hammer.

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