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Spider! 03-30-2009 01:42 AM

SMAC mag - Spider!s Minimal Analog Control
 
This thread is for my EP automag project using a common LM556 chip for control of my pneumag ram. I will try to post all the problems and developments, but for now it works well and I will be wringing out the whole thing for a while.

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...m/S5000522.JPG

I've always had trouble with ball collisions in my pneumag, since one break pretty much renders the accuracy from my revolver barrel kit useless. I wanted a way to prevent the trigger from keeping my automag from recharging properly. I went from a classic valve with an RT on/off to an x-valve with a ULT and still wasn't satisfied. I thought about a UTB, but I wanted less. I wanted something that ran semi-only, no modes or switches. I also wanted something cheap enough to put on a classic valve, where the board didn't cost more than a good stainless valve that would do what I want.

In the way back, when FORTRAN roamed the earth in large heaps and KP2 rifles were just starting to shoot semi-auto, paintball players talked about electric control of markers. Not electronic, electric, with capacitors, resistors, and such. Back then, the actuators were large and needed a lot of power. Most frames were small. Over the years people have discussed analog controls off and on, but they are generally as much work as a new micro-controller board without the features.

During that time I collected (some times inadvertently) various parts for an analog control circuit that I wanted to build. I noticed the new solenoids on Air Soldier Products and was interested by Hilltop Customs' EP mag on AO. While reading about the mess in Lukes garage (lukescustoms), someone asked why he worked that way. I know a few machinists, and I knew that probably that is the way he likes to work, with parts in hand. That reminded me that I have always wanted to do this, and some things have changed over the years that would make it work.

Things that have come together over the years are:

Power: LM556 timer chips are capable of 200 mA output, micro solenoids are down to 0.5W. This lets the old cheapie timer circuits drive the solenoid directly.

Precision parts: 1% resistors and 5% capacitors are easily available and much smaller.

Temperature stability: Metal film resistors and capacitors have very good temperature stability. The timer chips have always had good temperature tolerance.

Timing: with all of the info on other markers with solenoid dwell between 7 ms and 16 ms, as well as regulator recharge times, picking a dwell of 11 ms and a total hold out of about 49 ms was easy. A classic valve could use a little more, but I'm willing to live within those windows.

With all the discussion of tickler performance, I decided to take an old air gauge and drill and tap it for a 10-32 barb and checked it's output. Since I put my pneumag together, I had scratched a vernier on the side of my tickler to keep track of the setting. It turns out that it was usually running at about 40 psi, and occasionally about 60 psi when I had sear problems.

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...m/S5000519.JPG

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...m/S5000523.JPG

I gutted my old pneumag frame and setup a breadboard with my circuit and a test timer. The circuit is a delayed re-trigger LM556 with a couple of changes that I will get to. I will be posting the exact circuit I used and the web site that was most useful (there's a bunch).

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...m/S5000515.JPG

I checked the timing with an old surplus oscilloscope. The time delays were just about perfect as calculated. That's when I realized this might really work.

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...m/S5000516.JPG

I decided to throw out a few components...the on/off switch, the indicator light, and most significantly, the PC board. Since the chip is the largest electronic part, I decided to wire directly to the chip and it would be my board.
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...m/S5000520.JPG

Specs:
Infinite trigger sampling rate (no MHz here)
Audio/visual indicator (marker goes "bang")
Battery saver switch (remove battery after play, you should have about 50 hours of run time on an alky battery).
Firing rate about 20 bps
3 shot burst (fan trigger with three fingers)
6 shot burst (fan trigger twice)
mechanical backup mode (get the other mag out)
eye mode - level 7 or level 10

The best part is that you can wire the chip in any form you want and stuff it in other places. I may try a venomous designs ule rail. The actual parts cost is about $10, so it's a good entertainment value.

Here's how the guts fit finally.
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...m/S5000524.JPG

The switch is an 80g switch that I bought a bunch of to replace timmy board switches (that never needed it). Due to my frame's previous uses, the switch mount didn't come out clean, but the idea was to drill a hole of a diameter that would just fit the switch and pin the switch through, with the hole on the edge of the frame so that a slot would get cut for the wires to come through. I couldn't get a bit to run straight in my press on my carved up frame, so I drilled it by hand.

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...m/S5000518.JPG


Not only does this give my classic valve a home, I now have an x-valve to put in the next project.

Spider! 03-30-2009 01:42 AM

Here are the main internet circuit diagrams I used.

Delayed Re-triggering LM556

555 and 556 Timer Circuits-Diode placement


This circuit is drawn right-side-up, looking down on the chip. When you flip it over, it's best to redraw it.
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/...ACcircuit1.JPG

Most of the parts (except the diodes which are common and cheap) are in this digikey list. The switches are the same model as a 2k5 intimidator board.

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/.../scan00022.jpg

dukie 03-30-2009 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spider! (Post 763162)
Specs:
Infinite trigger sampling rate (no MHz here)
Audio/visual indicator (marker goes "bang")
Battery saver switch (remove battery after play, you should have about a week of run time).
Firing rate about 20 bps
3 shot burst (fan trigger with three fingers)
6 shot burst (fan trigger twice)
mechanical backup mode (get the other mag out)
eye mode - level 7 or level 10

Great specs! :ROTFL:

I like this, and I'm likely going to try it. Excellent work.

I'm picturing stuffing that inside a CF grip frame...mwahahaahahha! Mind you nobody seems to know what to make of my EP as it stands now.. Its decidedly odd looking.

Spider! 03-30-2009 05:37 PM

Thanks! I love keeping the stainless on the field. The last time I had it out as a classic pneu, the ref asked "is that an old mag?". I said, "yeah, kind of. It is a pneu-mag." He said "No, it's an old mag." Now they will really have no idea.

I was about to make the whole circuit flat and run up the side of the battery, but that little pocket had extra room in it. My old lapco grips (alloy frame) have cavities in them I think, but I haven't had them off in 17 years (!). I should probably check that.

Lmk if you want any help testing. I forgot about that. I used another timer chip (astable) and LEDs to trip the circuit at different rates from 5 to 50 Hz to make sure it would do what I wanted. However, most of my difficulties just came from shorts or poor connections.

Some day I will get a real soldering iron instead of my 25W cheapo.

sparky 04-03-2009 02:05 AM

The most awsome part of this whole project is someday PB manufactors will start building electros with everthing right on to the chip "to save weight".

Very cool ideas sir. I'm suprised how simple it is do acually.

Engus 04-03-2009 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spider! (Post 763936)
Thanks! I love keeping the stainless on the field. The last time I had it out as a classic pneu, the ref asked "is that an old mag?". I said, "yeah, kind of. It is a pneu-mag." He said "No, it's an old mag." Now they will really have no idea.

I was about to make the whole circuit flat and run up the side of the battery, but that little pocket had extra room in it. My old lapco grips (alloy frame) have cavities in them I think, but I haven't had them off in 17 years (!). I should probably check that.

Lmk if you want any help testing. I forgot about that. I used another timer chip (astable) and LEDs to trip the circuit at different rates from 5 to 50 Hz to make sure it would do what I wanted. However, most of my difficulties just came from shorts or poor connections.

Some day I will get a real soldering iron instead of my 25W cheapo.

This is pretty sweet, and I think i have one of those chips laying around unused somewhere too.

oh, and sig'd

Spider! 04-03-2009 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engus (Post 769776)
This is pretty sweet, and I think i have one of those chips laying around unused somewhere too.

oh, and sig'd

Thanks! I kept coming across old 556 chips too, as I was digging around my box for other stuff. I made sure to use a new one for the final test and assembly to be sure it worked, but it didn't seem to be any different. The switch is the most expensive part of the circuit. You can bounce the switch if you try, but it's still limited by the hold out timer. Also,tickling the trigger is not what brought this about, it's mashing the trigger when things get exciting. :rolleyes:

It fits a pneu-mag application just right; low power requirements and non-critical dwell and lpr settings. You can't get away with that on many markers (if any others).

Just for the record, the screw in the back of the frame in the last picture is a sear stop. Many people don't feel they are necessary. I figure if I'm going to tinker with about 0.020 in on/off pin pin length, I'm going to try to control the travel as well.

We're headed for Viper's Quest for the Holy Grail game today. It will get a full case test at least. Hopefully some dinky video as well.

Spider! 04-03-2009 02:52 PM

I edited the wiring diagram; R2 should be 300k, not 150k. I had experimented with a 150k, but put the 300k back in. It would be the yellow, black, black, yellow one in the picture. :rolleyes:

Engus 04-03-2009 02:57 PM

i might need to pick up some electric goodies, and take a crack at this. where did you get that tiny solenoid?

Spider! 04-03-2009 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engus (Post 770118)
i might need to pick up some electric goodies, and take a crack at this. where did you get that tiny solenoid?

It's a SMC S070C-SDG-32 (meant to put that up top).

I bought mine from a stalled AO'er. Airsoldier was out of stock. I bumped Haveblue about restocking those last month, so hopefully he has some on the way. Email him again if he doesn't. He is willing to stock them and usually does, he just needs to know someone wants them. Mann on AO had a couple, but they are gone now.

They are rated for 5VDC continuous, so you can't leave them hooked up to a 9V for a long period. Like airsoldier says, none of the solenoid valves are designed for high open and close rates. If it were a Lucas Ledex size 0E solenoid rated for 5VDC continuous, 9VDC at a 20% duty cycle would be perfect, so I don't feel bad about the voltage yet. I'll just have to wear it out to see for sure. :)

So far I've only run three half full air tanks through it. With a new level 10 to tune and dry firing, I didn't get near enough trigger time on my new toy.


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