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Old 05-31-2010, 06:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siress View Post
Nice recovery.

What's "the airsmith kit" that you speak of? Was there an end-all list somewhere? I've always thought that a mans toolbox was indicative of his mind. A clean toolbox is an organized mind. That doesn't mean I like what it indicates of my mind, though. Scattered here and there, occasionally brought back in one place...but at least it's equipped for whatever life throws at it. Now where did that blasted tool go...?
Recovery?
My 3357s had aluminum cylinders, brass barrels and a steel pawl. Those things plus the flexhones are why I switched from the 3357s to my next main marker in 2000 after them coming out in 87. In fact kidney tried to reproduce those alum cylinders a year or two ago, in spite of my telling him that the machinist who made mine back in 90(a master machinist with 32 years of exp), told me he never wanted to see me or those cursed things ever again. No joy yet!
I always used an also flexhoned P68SC or one of the many .68 cal pistols to have come down the pike for commercial play with field paint, but it's been all pistols all the time for me. So I never moved into the interchangeable barrel age with everyone else until last april when the TPX came in my life. So I never forgot the flexhone, nor did those I played against, I shot Bill Gardner in the back of the head from over 100' feet away with a zeus of all things

The Airsmith kit was a set of flexhones that had a selection of barrel hones and two rear bore hones for autocockers. the grits only went to 800ao.
The superfine is listed on their site, but it's actually a special order as you'll find if you get one. My latest one took 5 weeks to get here several years ago.


It's not my business to sell flexhones, I'm being as honest as I can be.

Rob
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:38 PM   #12 (permalink)
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...I was implying that you purchased them for the .50cal revolution. I, too, have had 3357s (never the Al cylinders, though! Did they still use the rubber to hold the balls in?) and even a set of Tac8's before Tiberius sold their first commercial products. I just decided that I should keep the shoulder contact point. It suits my 'if I can see it, I should be able to hit it' mentality. I admit that flex hones do their job well, just saying that roller burnishers must be better (though I've yet to do it myself).
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Old 05-31-2010, 07:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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AAAH, no I was in the first 50 revolution The cylinders I had made used a split ring inside each cyl, in like an internal oring groove sort of thing.

They were works of art and sometimes I wish I had kept them. I may get kicked from MCB for saying this but I'm not much of a keeper. That zeus I hit Mr Gardner with I gave to a kid at the field for instance. I've been into the TPXs since I started chatting up the engineers during development.

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Old 06-01-2010, 01:37 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I don't have 'a pathological distrust of authority', but I do have a distrust of anyone who tells you 'any irregularity in my barrel will be smaller than an air molecule is wide'.

What the hell is an 'air molecule'??
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:46 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Oh come on, even I let that one go.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:41 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jhyan View Post
I don't have 'a pathological distrust of authority', but I do have a distrust of anyone who tells you 'any irregularity in my barrel will be smaller than an air molecule is wide'.

What the hell is an 'air molecule'??
Wow, I'm sure your high school teachers would be thrilled hearing you ask that...

GO ahead and read:
A study of Cylinder wall microstructure

and

Quality as it affects performance

Like I did or take my word for it on the honing.

The air molecule in my case(I'm just that kind of guy) is called... wait for it... CO2! One Carbon atom and 2 oxygen atoms formed into a molecule that is.
You may have heard of co2 before I hope??? It's the magical stuff they put in 12grams, Jhyan!

It's a question of turbulence, roller burnishing and then a proper flexhoning give a plateau wall finish that doesn't tumble the co2 molecules and cause turbulence. Because of the high pressure and high velocity of the co2 in the barrel, this turbulence affects the flight of the ball.

The shorter the barrel, the worse it is.

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Old 06-01-2010, 09:06 AM   #17 (permalink)
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If only you knew someone who was perhaps a professional Metallurgical Engineer aan material Scientist who's day to day job was microscopy, electron and optical, grain size surface hardness annodizing thickness etc. and had access to other surface analysis techniques like roughness.
The president of the Michigan Microscopy and Microanalysis Society for instance.

Who also had a keen interest in paintball and replacing hearsay with hard facts.

Hmmm, where to find such person


(Anyone interested in surface and metallurgical analysis of paintball barrels, and other stuff of interest too I guess, can contact me. Examining a bore or grain size or coating thickness will require cutting up the area of interest, though about an inch is probably enough if anybody has any spare hanging around)

Oxygen, Nitrogen and CO2 are all molecules. A quick google around suggests a CO2 to be 240 - 320 nm, 300 nm ~ 12 millionths of an inch (?), O2 about 174 nm. so the ruoghness produced by a flex hone is no way near the same order as molecular sized.

But any half decent machinist, heck, even I could do when I was in school, can machine a plug for a tube that will only slide down slowly due the fit being so true the air can't squeeze by, that's more to do with boundary flow though. ( I also spent some time as a chemical engineer )
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:39 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Or an aspiring MSE student at one of the nations top universities (7, I think) with access to equipment/techniques that haven't hit the market yet.
Glad to hear from fellow MSE's. It's a small program here.

I'm not hard-up on proving something that can easily be reasoned, though. Honing works by removing material, roller burnishing works by compressing material plastically. You get a finer grain on the surface, increasing the number of grain defects and increasing hardness as a result.
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:41 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I never trust a companies own research. Sometimes they're honest, but it's very rare. Besides, the biggest difference would be seen in the grains and grain boundaries. Using an optical microscope will show you the differences, so it's plenty large enough for air molecules. Roller burnishing really, SERIOUSLY, makes a harder, stronger, smoother bore.

Heh, that's a good one, Carter. 'Our paint sucks, what can we do?...Ah! Blame the barrel, and offer to fix it for more money!'
The reports Rob refers to are detailed engineering reports filled with pictures and surface profile traces, the data is open to examination. While there are always ways to fudge such things what they have set out is clear.

While it's true roller burnishing produces a smooth hard surface, can this be done on small bore like a paintball barrel ?

Also unconnected with teflon coating, but I suspect hyoerbole at this point
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:53 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I'll happily give you a barrel to test, Beest or Siress! I think I may have even done the barrel on your TPX already Beest, but I'll gladly donate an extra one I have to science!


Quote:
Grit Finish Range
800-LA Ra 3-10 (.05 - .2 Micrometer)
600 Ra 8-12 (.2 - .3 Micrometer)
400 Ra 10-20 (.3 - .6 Micrometer)
320 Ra 18-30 (.5 - .7 Micrometer)
240 Ra 24-32 (.6 - .8 Micrometer)
180 Ra 30-40 (.7 - . 1 Micrometer)
120 Ra 35-50 (.9 –1.4 Micrometer)
80 Ra 45-64 (1.2 – 1.6 Micrometer)
60 Ra 60-80 (1.5 – 2 Micrometer)
40 Ra 70-125 (1.7 to 3.2 Micrometers)
20 Ra 125-250 (3.2 to 6.3 Micrometers)
Given the finish range of the LA flexhone, you don't think it will do pretty much what I said it would do?

My experimental data gathered over the last 20 years suggest it does.

Rob
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