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Old 11-30-2010, 09:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Haha, I know. I had a Z-1 and a Rental-Z for a while, sold them to Mayvik, if I remember correctly. I became frustrated with trying to find parts, especially for a very... tired Z-1. A friend of mine used it as his primary gun for a long, long time, and put a lot of paint through it.

Who knows, by the time I start seriously looking into a mech to run with liquid, I might end up with one. I wish I could find a nice Mega though...
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:10 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Some girl I went to school with's boyfriend once told me he had a mega Z. I know for a fact that he doesn't play..maybe I should rekindle that friendship haha. It's a darn shame that he knows what it is...I'd love a cheap montneel.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:08 AM   #23 (permalink)
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But anyway, most of the old blowbacks will run liquid just fine
I was going to say the same thing.

It seems odd to some, but 20 years ago siphon tanks were practically STANDARD. Most every gun on the market either came with a siphon standard, as an option, or at least was "siphon capable".

Sure, I'm ignoring pumps, mags and cockers but those are my 3 least favorite guns, so I don't care about them.

Montneels are special because they made the effort to tune the valve to maximize effeciency, but you still get all the benefits using a siphon with any other blowback. ie no shootdown, no spikes, no cycling problems, no fps issues.

You basically get an HPA system without the headaches of an HPA system (ie high initial cost, low fills, heavy gear).

Why are siphons not used today? Front the industry reps I've talked to it was mainly the introduction of solenoid-valve controlled guns. Siphons do expensive damage to them. Older guns like cockers and mags would simply freeze up. But a modern Timmy, or similar, would instantly be ruined.

I've also heard that it might be that companies would make higher profits selling things like e/cs, and regs for co2 users. I've also heard it meant companies could use cheaper non-liquid friendly orings and powertubes.

The later, at least, we know is true because companies HAVE switched to lower grade orings. Tippmann infamously switched to a very low-grade powertube when it officially stopped support for the siphon tank.

All that means is that its harder to run modern guns on siphon tanks. Some work better then others, depending on the oring/cupseal material.

There was a users here a while ago who research the modern use of liquid co2 with modern guns. He had a website about it at criticalco2.com but its a dead link now. Not sure what happened to him?
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:20 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Sure, I'm ignoring pumps, mags and cockers but those are my 3 least favorite guns, so I don't care about them.
A good friend of mine actually ran a vertical 7 oz siphon tank on his Phantom for years (possibly a decade or more). He loved the performance, and had no issues whatsoever. He did break one power tube during that time, but he was heavily auto-triggering when it happened, so it may have just been wear.

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Originally Posted by HP_Lovecraft View Post
There was a users here a while ago who research the modern use of liquid co2 with modern guns. He had a website about it at criticalco2.com but its a dead link now. Not sure what happened to him?
I saw him on Youtube with videos from last year. I thought it was going to be you at first. I would be interested to see him again.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:37 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by idkfa View Post
A good friend of mine actually ran a vertical 7 oz siphon tank on his Phantom for years (possibly a decade or more). He loved the performance, and had no issues whatsoever. He did break one power tube during that time, but he was heavily auto-triggering when it happened, so it may have just been wear.
Do you happen to know if he had any trouble keeping liquid in the valve or know any details about his setup inside?
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Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:54 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I run siphon on most of my pumps too, never have any issues, but unless your having low velocity issues there is no real value to siphon on a pump.
Power tubes break. it has no relevance to what propellant you use.
VM68 = siphon
Old Tippmanns = siphon
old Icd = siphon
Mega Z = siphon
old Mokal = siphon
I even run siphon thru my Armson semi.
I also play at least 52 times a year. Ive played in temps down in the teens.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:59 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I run siphon on most of my pumps too, never have any issues, but unless your having low velocity issues there is no real value to siphon on a pump.
Power tubes break. it has no relevance to what propellant you use.
VM68 = siphon
Old Tippmanns = siphon
old Icd = siphon
Mega Z = siphon
old Mokal = siphon
I even run siphon thru my Armson semi.
I also play at least 52 times a year. Ive played in temps down in the teens.
I've been toying with the idea of running Nelsons on liquid to get better efficiency and consistency.

To contribute a little more.

My F4 with e/c works fine on co2 gas down to at least 5*F.
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I don't so much make money, as provide a conduit for it's movement.
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:18 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Do you happen to know if he had any trouble keeping liquid in the valve or know any details about his setup inside?
He hates tinkering with guns, so I would imagine that his was factory stock with whatever Phantoms had in the early 90s. I can ask him though, I will post here when I find out.

I know he ran a vertical air kit, 7 oz siphon, T-stock, 11" barrel (no inserts or rings), and a CF body. It shot nicely. Other players called the liquid his "bonus" or something along those lines.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:19 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertsr View Post
I don't so much make money, as provide a conduit for it's movement.
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:20 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by capitalpaintball View Post
Power tubes break. it has no relevance to what propellant you use.
I think liquid could affect this a bit. Montneel found that when they used the gas powertues, which had larger ports than the stock liquid tubes, on liquid they had a higher failure rate. If I was setting up a nelson to run on liquid, I'd try using a smaller port power tube. Mainly because smaller usually = better for liquid tuning, but also because I think it'd be less likely to break.


Nish, btw I still haven't dropped that tubing in the mail, will do it asap, sorry!!
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