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Old 03-15-2011, 07:32 PM   #41 (permalink)
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AWESOME for shutting up the "egos shoot +/- 1 day" folks.
*Shoots 3 balls over chrono* 285, 284, 286. ZOMG +/- 1 ALL DAY!

At least, that's how I figure it goes. I always shoot 20-30 balls over the chrono on a constant air marker, or 2-3 12ies on a SC marker when getting set up for the day.

Checking the speed later to make sure I'm not creeping on CO2, though, I will shoot one or two.

I have several "new" markers that I'll be posting reviews on. I'll definitely be following the suggested format as close as I can. Really it just would be nice to see the basics that you want to hear about covered.
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:36 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I wonder if the sample waiver format Painthappy created could be modified to be usable here, then added as a wiki to the vintagerex museum?
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:51 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I see it as being simple. If someone is going to review a gun using an aftermarket barrel, they can take the time to do it right and incorporate the tests using the stock barrel too.
The main test needs to focus on the gun as it comes out of the box. Include other results with the other barrel, but there is just so many choices in barrels to make it apply to everyone.

Also accuracy tests should be benched tested with specific distance ranges and the target the same size, I suggest paper plates, everyone can obtain the standard paper plate.
To truly gauge accuracy take out as much human factor as possible.
Temperatures and humidity can be recorded.
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:59 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by paintslinger16 View Post

Also accuracy tests should be benched tested with specific distance ranges and the target the same size, I suggest paper plates, everyone can obtain the standard paper plate.
To truly gauge accuracy take out as much human factor as possible.
Temperatures and humidity can be recorded.
Uh. This would be better suited for a paint review. Accuracy is mostly paint based.
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:09 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Uh. This would be better suited for a paint review. Accuracy is mostly paint based.
I concur about the paint being far too great of a factor for bench tests to matter generally. Once past the tip of the barrel, it's in Newton's hands, regardless of the gun.

I also find that the ergonomics of the gun affect the accuracy too. We don't play the game with our markers in a vice. I had an Automag that I played a day with a drop forward to make it more compact. I couldn't hit anything worth a darn and the gun just felt wrong in my hands. When I removed the drop forward and went standard bottom line, my aim improved. It was the same tank, reg, grip, body, and barrel but it fit me better.

The ergonomics matter but due to the many sizes and shapes of players, is difficult to pin down in a review or spec sheet and especially not in an objective manner.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:33 PM   #46 (permalink)
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To make something standard you have to make it the same. Just because your sharp shooter with a Phantom, dosnt mean you can hit a barn with a DM9.
If every gun is judged the same way, you would shot it from a bench at set ranges in the same rest.
To be fair on the paint, it should be the same three brands with the test prefomed at the same temp.
Like I said before thier is so many varibles there is no way to cover every one.

Even with the same brand paint, you do your test and keep your control paint in the sealed bag in the box in the shade. I leave my bag open sitting on the grass with a heavy dew.
guess who's small bore paint is now swelled?
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Old 03-18-2011, 04:49 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Haven't we already discovered that as long as the gun is reasonably consistant, no gun will shoot more accurately than another?

About using reballs, could they be used for efficiency tests? I mean, If you have a gun set up to shoot ~285 FPS with real paint, and then fill the tank up and shoot reballs? wouldn't it be using the same amount of air? Or do reballs affect the gun's operation differently than paint?
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Old 03-19-2011, 12:53 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Painthappy View Post
When reviewing guns, there is a lot of subjectiveness that goes into it. Color, feel, thoughts on quality, etc...
I propose a review standard.
I cannot agree with this concept more! I hate magazine reviews. I find a most other reviews lacking. This causes me to rely on many sources before I can make a simple objective comparison between two markers.

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Originally Posted by Painthappy
FPS Consistency...
I really like the idea of this but, I think it will be fairly difficult to get meaningful information here.

Personally, I have never observed better consistency than my T9.0. My T9.0 has polished internals, a LAPCO .690 9" barrel, a ninja 45/4.5k for it's air source and First Strike rounds for it's ammo. I frequently get three shot strings like 287, 288, 287. That kind of consistency is within the precision limits of any radar based chronograph in this sport. I didn't get this right away. I started off with a Guerilla Air, 13/3k

On the other hand, my highly modified Woodstalker Ion (see sig) which draws comments from chrono refs for its consistency (while underboring), gets that much less often, and is typically, something like 290, 285, 287

The reason for the difference: Paint diameter inconsistency. The hemisphere's of FSRs, are much more consistent (as measured by my digital calipers) than any paintballs I've ever shot.

For what it's worth, I'm not bragging, I love my 9.0 simply for First Strike rounds, and the typical deviations don't really impact accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Painthappy
Fuel Economy Stats

Like the car, how many shots CAN we get off a tank?...
Very true. But like several others have pointed out, there are so many variables at play that can render the resulting data less useful to the average player.

If they (economy and consistency) can't be reliable comparison metrics, then they are meaningless.

I agree with most of the rest. However, there are some things that I have particular ideas about:

+ What's in the box- I want to know what my money is getting me.

+ Hardware features (i.e. planet eclipse's new ASA, DM10 snap-on grips, feedneck/Reg/barrel threading, detent types, etc) - tells me what kind of accessories I can get for it and, hardware design improvements.

+ Software features (firing modes, programability, etc) - Tells me how much I can customize the function of the gun.

+ An overview of it's interface (i.e. menu system) - gives me an idea of how complicated the gun is to program. For example, how do I have to do to change dwell or, What do I need to do to change ROF/trigger pulls, etc for different tournament formats.

+ Routine Maintenance requirements (an overview of the steps required at the end of a day's play) - this tells me what I will be getting into in regards to maintenance. An Ion would have failed this test.

+ Any problems encountered in a couple evolutions of play (i.e. play one day, routine maintenance, play another day, routine maintenance)- short term reliability

+ Warranty and Customer Support - tells me how well the company takes care of owners
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Old 03-19-2011, 01:56 PM   #49 (permalink)
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For efficiency tests is it pebble to say take a tank with a digital gauge, like TechT uses in there videos, and shoot a set amount of balls, say 200. Then do the math out tp figure out how many shots you should get per tank. Granted you would have to figure out what the operating pressure of the gun is and stop there in you equation. I also think reballs is the best bet, why waste so much paint.

I would also like to see efficiency numbers broken down to say X shorts per 1000psi from a 4500psi tank and Y shots per 1000psi from a 3000psi tank.
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