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Old 05-05-2011, 02:28 AM   #41 (permalink)
tea, a cause and effect
 
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lol you yanks have paint issues, over here i barely get rollouts from my invert nightstick(690 ish lol)
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So long as its under 18 and over 8 I dont care what it is really...
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Oh boy...I love wood!
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well - just like my sex life, I have taken matters into my own hands:
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:15 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Well, I wasn't really expecting the money answer in that sort of way, but it does seem to make sense.
TechPB-Mike is dead-on. I used to arrange manufacture and forecast 10-12 shipments a year of 2760-3200 cases per shipment. The cost of materials to produce paintballs, particularly PEG (Polyethylene Glycol), went through the roof the last few years. Combine that with rising fuel costs increasing landed cost and it just got more and more expensive to produce paintballs. Less profit was being made but the encapsulating plants have to keep the machines running so corners needed to be cut. Closer inspection on two shipments revealed the weight of a case to be almost a pound less than previous.

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So why not just charge more?
They did. Remember a couple of years ago when announcements went out that retail prices had to go up? The paintball community collectively freaked the f%@k out.

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In the long haul it would still be cheaper when you factor all the hoop-jumping to keep pace with the smaller paint. I'll pay another $5 or so a case to keep it up to a standard caliber.
About 5% of the paintball public are reasonable enough to understand the situation and pony up $5 more per case of paint. The rest scream bloody murder. Another interesting phenomenon that one sees in most (but not all) paintball retail is that the more someone spends on a high ROF marker, the less they will spend on a case of paint. The majority of the pb consumers are willing to buy more inserts or barrels but not willing to spend more for paint.

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Besides, eliminating the original caliber of paint would hurt the pb economy, not help it. It's the reason major auto industries put out more than just one make, and more than just one model of that make.
Its not a conspiracy to make you buy more gear. Heck, almost all the paint manufacturers do not make barrels! Its just trying to maintain profit on the one thing in paintball that is supposed to make profit. That is, if its a business that actually wants to be a profitable business and not the all-too-commom unprofitable 'hobbyist' store who only exists so the owner can buy cheap gear for him and his buddies.


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Surely there will be backlash, if there isn't already.
The backlash to needing smaller inserts is insignificant to the backlash of raising paint prices.

Last edited by LettuceHead; 05-05-2011 at 04:37 AM.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:55 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Lettuce (and TechPB-Mike, and all),

That is a really fine answer, if a depressing one.

But I do seem to recall a time long, long ago, when we whippersnappers would dump money hand over fist into markers and then try to run the cheapest, oldest paint on the planet through them, and then gripe when it didn't work.

So I guess it makes sense that that is still the prevalent mentality--buy really high-end markers and then fit them with 'magic wand barrels' guaranteed to turn even the nastiest paint into the Devil's own darts.

So perhaps the question is, how to educate players that it is (a) more fun and (b) more cost effective to buy the best paint you can get? You don't need to shoot as much, because the paint performs better. And you don't spend as much time grumbling and maniacally pulling the trigger in a zombie nightmare where the balls either roll out or curve wildly. Or frantically fumbling with a squeegee while being hemmed in by a tightening ring of shambling hordes.

Perhaps it is the case that some folk really have just never taken the leap and seen how different the performance actually is between the good stuff and the cheap stuff. I remember getting a spare pod from a buddy during a game a couple years ago, and he'd gotten some ghastly cheap stuff, and seeing the difference when it really mattered really seared it in my brain. My days of cheap paint were already long gone, but this was just another reminder of the wisdom of always getting the good stuff.

Well, here's to hoping that somehow the mentality changes before our markers are forced to.
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Last edited by Menace; 05-05-2011 at 04:03 AM.
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:05 AM   #44 (permalink)
starts off small at first
 
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^^^ and to answer Menace's question - Yes, there was a concious effort by paint companies to make the balls smaller. Less paint fill, less gelatin used, less weight = less cost. Companies made the decision to produce a smaller ball, to cut costs. If they can squeeze 5% more profit out of the selling 2000 rounds of the "smaller ball", that adds up over the course of a couple hundred pallets of paint.

Anyone else think that maybe we should stop counting the balls, and start weighing the boxes? LOL
You can weigh all you want Mike, but it won't change a thing unfortunately.
I play quite a bit of Renegade (outlaw). Lucky me..., and so I have the option of choosing the best paint for my markers.
Some markers, ie; Carter's and other similar closed bolt systems (mostly Nelson's/BLAZER'S) won't work with under boring. Imagine the horror?
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THE-SHOOTIST Anyone chubbin' like me for this?
mailmanmike Since Monday! That's more than 4 hours though, so according to those cialis ads I should see my doctor.
tlane77 I think for a non-chemical chubby it's 6 hours before its time to see a doctor. So you should be good for another couple hours.
splattttttt I wasn't goin to google "chubbin" because I assumed it had to do with fat. The lard type, not the fun stuff. But what ever feelings Jeff's experiencing, then they must be of the fun like stuff...
tlane77 He's got a woody for your woods.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:37 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LettuceHead View Post
About 5% of the paintball public are reasonable enough to understand the situation and pony up $5 more per case of paint. The rest scream bloody murder. Another interesting phenomenon that one sees in most (but not all) paintball retail is that the more someone spends on a high ROF marker, the less they will spend on a case of paint. The majority of the pb consumers are willing to buy more inserts or barrels but not willing to spend more for paint.
This has always killed me. Some kid comes in with the brand new latest and greatest Dye or Eclipse marker with a $120 carbon fiber barrel and a brand new $150 loader or a Tippmann gun with $600 worth of cosmetic bolt-ons and complains because paint went up $5 or the field fees went up a little because the field is trying not to go out of business. Whether we like it or not, this is a fairly expensive hobby. What's $5 when you carry $1500 worth of gear on the field?

That being said, I love the Nelson Hemorrhage paint. It is awesome, large failry affordable paint. I use my .691 insert for it. The DXS Triumph also seems to be fairly large, I use my .685 insert for it.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:57 AM   #46 (permalink)
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If Nelson Hemorrhage fits a .691, I'll try that instead of the Anarchy.
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THE-SHOOTIST Anyone chubbin' like me for this?
mailmanmike Since Monday! That's more than 4 hours though, so according to those cialis ads I should see my doctor.
tlane77 I think for a non-chemical chubby it's 6 hours before its time to see a doctor. So you should be good for another couple hours.
splattttttt I wasn't goin to google "chubbin" because I assumed it had to do with fat. The lard type, not the fun stuff. But what ever feelings Jeff's experiencing, then they must be of the fun like stuff...
tlane77 He's got a woody for your woods.
splattttttt land
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:56 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Its pretty stinking big.
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:35 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I'd gladly pay double for a case of paint that was decent sized at my local field if only they would make it available. Benefits of playing rock 'n cock.

As it is half the damn balls roll out of the barrel before I even have a chance to shoot them.
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:36 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I have to say, I think I may have been blessed. I have a shop about an hour away from me, that sells top end paint at, what I can only describe as stupid prices. Hector's Outdoor Haven, for you fellow New Jersey folks. Prime example would be the case of Marballizers I got for $50 about two months ago. The tightest I can go with my stainless freaks is .684, and that's really forcing it in there. I get no rollouts with them, even on a factory sheridan KP2 with no widgets. Not sure what the bore of that thing is, but it still impressed me. Not to mention how awesome they shoot. Fast forward to now, and I still have two bags left with no dimples or deformations whatsoever. I absolutely love this paint.

For my new Axe though, I think I would rather go pick up a case of RPS Inertia from Dick's Sporting Goods for $35. Can't beat the cost, and it will shoot pretty decent with the right size barrel. Every time I've used them, they seem to shoot nicely from a .681. The odd rollout here and there, but decent shooting paint for the price. Personally, I would rather not waste the marbs in a high speed gun.

This whole shrinking paint issue does suck, though. I would love to see more manufacturers make a stand and actually listen to the players. I'm going to have to try some of Titus' Nelson paint one of these days. That stuff sounds almost too good to be true, what with the .690 sizes. Should work nicely in the KP2's and the Duck. I'm just glad that the field I go to allows you to use your own paint on Sundays, otherwise I'd be right along with everyone in roll-out city.
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:09 PM   #50 (permalink)
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We played with RPS bronze and silver last year and they all averaged .679 - .677
This year our field has GI Sportz silver and the last 4 cases I shot were around .684 - .682. A slight improvement, but still small in my book.
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