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Old 05-20-2011, 11:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I could see it being difficult to use this idea of a spyder pump at a high ROF
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Old 05-20-2011, 11:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Ok, let me amend my definition: you can't fire a paintball again without an action separate from pulling the trigger. There's definitely grey areas, so if you want to arrange them in terms of purity of pumping I think it would go like this:

<more pure>-------------------------------------------------------------------<less pure>
standard pump - "pump spyder" - mq - pneumatic assist - autococker - any other semi

I honestly don't understand pump mags enough to place them somewhere on the list, but I think they'd have to be left of pneumatic assist. I think anything left of pneumatic assist definitely counts as "pump", and PA could arguably be on either side of the fence. I put 'cockers to the left of other semis because, while a single trigger pull is all you need, there are two steps, and we all know it's possible to do one (shoot) without the other (actuate the pneumatics), so it's arguable closer to a pump than say, a blowback.
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Old 05-21-2011, 12:09 AM   #13 (permalink)
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if the pumping action doesn't both reset the gun and load a ball, then it's walking the line. i would allow it in a pump game, but i would frown upon it and might add some handicap.
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Old 05-21-2011, 01:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I dont see the difference. as long as you have to manually chamber the ball its a pump.
To say a spyder pump or a mq is an advantage over a "purist" pump is bull. try shooting one. no difference at all.
I have made Spumps, 98 pumps and electro pnuematic pumps and an old nelson based still cycles faster. even the pneumatic assist cocker pump is not better, unless you had an auto trigger.
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Old 05-21-2011, 03:25 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I feel an AT gun can shoot faster then what you are proposing so whatever. Mag pumps and MQ's can't shoot faster either. The only gun where there is an issue are PA guns
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Old 05-21-2011, 03:39 AM   #16 (permalink)
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With regards to the "you must manually chamber a ball" for it to be considered pump, does this mean that open-bolt pumps (of any sort, current or future) are automatically disallowed?
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Old 05-21-2011, 03:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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For every single person that has posted asking how to make a spyder pump, it isn't.

I always let them know of that option, because it will allow you to make, and put it all back, with minimal cost and modification. Every time they reply with, "Thats not really a pump".
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:01 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heinous View Post
if the pumping action doesn't both reset the gun and load a ball, then it's walking the line. i would allow it in a pump game, but i would frown upon it and might add some handicap.
How does a chamber-only action warrant a handicap?

I can see if the stroke is significantly quicker, but wouldn't you do the same if everyone was shooting load/rest pumps and one had a similar advantage?

Internal function doesn't matter. Once the new phantom comes out I'm sure everyone will agree. This kind of 'assign a category to it' line of thinking limits paintball.
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:39 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I think this conversation is confusing the 'advantages' of certain markers - with the definition of a pump.

To me, it doesn't matter what pumps faster, or more efficient - it matters what a pump marker is.

In it's most pure form - the pump marker not only had to chamber a ball (or allow a ball to be chambered) but also it had to recock the marker in some way to allow it to be fired.

Every early pump did this. The Sheridan's and Nelsons not only reset a spring but chambered a ball. The Splatmaster reset a spring and allowed for a ball to be chambered.

P-Mags are essentially a mag where, when the trigger is pulled, the bolt moves forward and causes the bolt to stick forward. The pump, then, pushed the bolt back, chambering the ball and allowing the marker to be fired again. I think the P-Mag is less pure as it does not reset a spring or other mechanism to allow it to be fired. Essentially the P-mag corrects something that should not take place in the normal operation that the Mag was not designed to perform.

I don't think advantage has anything to do with it - or speed of pumping. By this criterion we would call the Stock Class pump more of a pump than a gravity feed pump - which I think is not correct.


P0E,

You have confused 'defining' with 'discrimination'. I REALLY don't care what people shoot. I play against semi's all the time - so anything that is not 15 BPS is refreshing. I don't LIMIT paintball with this definition - I simply seek to define it.


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Old 05-22-2011, 11:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm going to have to disagree on pump mags not being pumps. You can't refire without a pumping action. Anything requiring a manual action to bring the action to full cycle is "pump".

Who cares what started pump, and what the definitions were then? You can't live in the past, paintball is always changing. And so will pump.
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