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Old 06-18-2011, 04:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Agglet View Post
That thread is mostly just tourney kids ragging on Horizon about his paint prices. In the interest of saving others valuable time I'll sum it up:

Tourney kid: Your paint is too expensive and your field will fail.
Horizon: We make money and are still in business...
Tourney kid: derp.
Haha. Derp.
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by UR A DEAD MAN APPLES View Post
This shattered my paradigm of what I believed the backbone of the sport to be. So, while we all like to think we are helping the sport, maybe we are doing more harm than good.
IMO the backbone is the 10 yr old w/ the rental. If they have fun, they tell a friend. If they dont, well.. I guess now a days they splash it on facebook telling their 2000 friends.

expanding on this just a hair:

If 4 yr old - plays T ball and doesn't like it odds are mom wont make him play coaches pitch next year.

Now what coach in his right mind would let the t-baller step up to the plate with 16year old throwing 70mph curve balls and expect to see the t-baller next season? Real sports have this pretty well figured out... professional associations like Dixie Youth, Little League etc helps a lot for the continued existence and growth of the sport. Paintball by comparison is an absolute joke - and IMO has not reached the level of maturity to start discussing the organizational bodies to ensure its survival. We are still talking about why the new players don't like getting slaughtered and why hoppers cost $200.

A good place to start: insurance. Take the APL, wrap a good training program around it, inflexible rules on staffing and rules, and make something like it mandatory for all commercial fields... including the insurance part. This would get rid of the trailer trash in one quick stroke.

I doubt 10% of the field we assume to be insured are.. try asking your local field owner for his proof in insurance. see what he says.
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Last edited by thumper; 06-18-2011 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 06-18-2011, 06:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thumper View Post
IMO the backbone is the 10 yr old w/ the rental. If they have fun, they tell a friend. If they dont, well.. I guess now a days they splash it on facebook telling their 2000 friends.

expanding on this just a hair:

If 4 yr old - plays T ball and doesn't like it odds are mom wont make him play coaches pitch next year.

Now what coach in his right mind would let the t-baller step up to the plate with 16year old throwing 70mph curve balls and expect to see the t-baller next season? Real sports have this pretty well figured out... professional associations like Dixie Youth, Little League etc helps a lot for the continued existence and growth of the sport. Paintball by comparison is an absolute joke - and IMO has not reached the level of maturity to start discussing the organizational bodies to ensure its survival. We are still talking about why the new players don't like getting slaughtered and why hoppers cost $200.

A good place to start: insurance. Take the APL, wrap a good training program around it, inflexible rules on staffing and rules, and make something like it mandatory for all commercial fields... including the insurance part. This would get rid of the trailer trash in one quick stroke.

I doubt 10% of the field we assume to be insured are.. try asking your local field owner for his proof in insurance. see what he says.
I agree.
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Old 06-18-2011, 10:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Yep wise words.

But also keep in mind what the insurance is there for....cause some can get insurance just to protect their field from fire, theft, hacked off players who destroy the place. If that is all the insurance you are carrying then who cares
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Old 06-18-2011, 10:15 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I wouldn't say it's the speedballers, but more so the type of players that come in play. If you have poor sportsmanship from anyone, they should not be welcomed at the field. I don't pay good money to play paintball and take abuse/drama from idiots. If I wanted that, I would stay home and watch reruns of springer...
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:00 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm going to directly answer: Yes, "tourney" players are bad for our sport.

The tournament players (regardless of whether or not they actually play in tournaments) tend to give this impression (consciously or not) that tournaments are where it's at in paintball -- if you want to play paintball, this is where you should be headed.

This "tournament attitude" is the antithesis of the backbone of paintball, which is rec play. Everybody knows this, or at least everyone here should.

This is part of what is stifling our sport.

If I want to go play tennis, I just go play tennis. There's no need for me to (pretend to want to) enter some flipping tournament.

If I want to go bowling, I just go bowling. I don't have aspirations to be in some league or whatever.

If I want to go lift weights, I go do it. I'm not interested in entering some local body building competition or something.

If people just want to play basketball, they go play basketball. There's no pressure to go into basketball tournaments or whatever.

Same thing with racquetball. Same thing with like a bajillion other sports which are all way more successful than paintball.

Paintball lacks the "pick up game" nature, and this tournament garbage is killing it off faster than it can build itself up.


Incidentally, the newest fad is to replace tournaments with scenarios and "tourney players" with milsim players.
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:42 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GoatBoy View Post
I'm going to directly answer: Yes, "tourney" players are bad for our sport.

The tournament players (regardless of whether or not they actually play in tournaments) tend to give this impression (consciously or not) that tournaments are where it's at in paintball -- if you want to play paintball, this is where you should be headed.

This "tournament attitude" is the antithesis of the backbone of paintball, which is rec play. Everybody knows this, or at least everyone here should.

This is part of what is stifling our sport.

If I want to go play tennis, I just go play tennis. There's no need for me to (pretend to want to) enter some flipping tournament.

If I want to go bowling, I just go bowling. I don't have aspirations to be in some league or whatever.

If I want to go lift weights, I go do it. I'm not interested in entering some local body building competition or something.

If people just want to play basketball, they go play basketball. There's no pressure to go into basketball tournaments or whatever.

Same thing with racquetball. Same thing with like a bajillion other sports which are all way more successful than paintball.

Paintball lacks the "pick up game" nature, and this tournament garbage is killing it off faster than it can build itself up.
Not sure I understand. Why is paintball different? Sure there might be a few tourney players that feel this way, but why can't paintball players just go and play some recball? It's not like there are tourney players everywhere and field make you play tournaments.

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Originally Posted by GoatBoy View Post
Incidentally, the newest fad is to replace tournaments with scenarios and "tourney players" with milsim players.
I agree that some of the Milsim players seem to have some similarities with tournament players in that they feel their genre of paintball is the way players should head. Having said that, I feel there is room for everyone and people should play what hey want to play and hopefully there will be venues available for everyone to play what they want to play.
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:47 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
Not sure I understand. Why is paintball different? Sure there might be a few tourney players that feel this way, but why can't paintball players just go and play some recball?
It's not recball when you're playing with a group of walkons and renters and the new kids are getting bonus balled by a ramping douchebag.
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:29 AM   #29 (permalink)
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It's not recball when you're playing with a group of walkons and renters and the new kids are getting bonus balled by a ramping douchebag.
Then you separate the groups. At one of my local fields actually both that that I go to now that I think about it, have different 'classes' if you must, a beginner class which is your newbs and rentals basically people rocking Spyders/Tippys/Azodins. Then you have the intermediates who are the experienced players where bunkering is allowed and surrender is not really 'mandatory'. Sometimes you get the douchebag who feels he needs to up his ego and slip in the beginner group with his NT/Luxe/Ego, etc. This fool gets two or three games in before the ref yanks *** and puts him where he belongs, intermediates.
The speedballer is not killing the sport it is the douchebags who ruin it for everyone by unneccasary bunkering/overshooting/wiping whatnot. Just because someone is wearing 'pro clothes' does not mean thy are pro. I like wearing a nice jersey and paintball pants while playing recball because believe it or not it is more comfortable for me than wearing BDU's. If I wanted to dress up in fatigues then I would join the military (I hoping I'm not stepping on peoples toes here) that is just not my style.
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Old 06-19-2011, 11:04 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Brother Jerry View Post
..But also keep in mind what the insurance is there for....cause some can get insurance just to protect their field from fire, theft, hacked off players who destroy the place. If that is all the insurance you are carrying then who cares
^ agreed - but I think w/ liability coverage (like the APLs) comes regulations and operational guidelines that ultimately will boil down (in part) to staff training and then to the experience the customer can expect.

I don't care about fire burning the place down, or the theft coverage. I AM concerned that when I take the gog shot on the renter that I have a reasonable level of comfort that the lense in his goggles was inspected by a trained staff member that morning, that the goggle were not left in the sun to dry for the past 4 weeks, and that the lenses were free of stress cracks, and that all the clips etc were in place and functioning properly, and that the rental marker was chronographed recently and its velocity was w/in the astm guidelines of the goggles im wearing... etc etc etc.

It is so incredible rare to see a field that runs 1/2 as well as the fields were back when the APL was running full bore. The fruit has fallen far from the tree.

sorry if I headed off topic..
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