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Old 06-23-2011, 02:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
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completely off topic: But what feild do you play at in Vancouver? I play at richmond indoor.

it's pretty cool,the only flaw is taht it can't tell team mates apart and it doesn't have a way to determine if someone is out or not
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Why wouldn't a field allow something like this during a scenario?
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...give me 4 of these in a fort and I will hold off an army single handed
You answered your own question. There is no way you could safely control 4 seperate guns remotely. Some players (ie Lasoya) can not control a single gun, while holding, safely.

Its a moot point since NO gun that uses AI would ever be allowed. Paintball Field insurance rules have regulations like:

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A trigger pull requires an exertion of force by the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during every firing cycle
Meaning, a user as to physically pull the trigger on the gun. AI-controlled systems are unsafe, and have no place in paintball. And all fields universally do not allow BLIND FIRING, which this would also qualify as.

A remote gun might be understandable, say, to sit on top of a tank with its controller directly underneath? I'd probobly allow that. Maybe even some computer controlled aiming? thats borderline, as it depends on how much control the user has.

Lets all be safe.
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Old 06-23-2011, 03:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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No way to safely control...what sort of safety violation are we talking about here? And blind firing is far different from remote firing. With this I have camera and can see where it is firing....I can see how close the target is...firing blind I could be shooting around a corner and hitting person in the face.

I know as far as I am concerned I could manage 4 laptops attached to 4 of these a great deal better than some kids can handle their Ego's when they are ramping. This is at least setup to fire in a semi/response mode.

Here is issues I see with current incarnation of this device. There is no "hit" recognition so on it's own it has no idea if a player calls himself out. So if player gets up and starts to walk out...he would get lit up again.

I also do not know if current incarnation has any sort of "distance" identification, meaning if something moves that appears over a certain size, does it consider it closer and thus does not fire. This is a problem as well, one that with addition of some sort of range finder feed back could be resolved in later versions.

So let me ask you this...if the device has distance safe guards that are 99% effective, and has the ability to identify aggressive actions verse "running away" sort of algorithms, would you consider it closer to allowable in certain field situations?

I guess the core point would be, what do you see as the key point in hindering it from making a presence on a field?
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Old 06-23-2011, 05:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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No way to safely control...what sort of safety violation are we talking about here? And blind firing is far different from remote firing. With this I have camera and can see where it is firing....I can see how close the target is...firing blind I could be shooting around a corner and hitting person in the face.

I know as far as I am concerned I could manage 4 laptops attached to 4 of these a great deal better than some kids can handle their Ego's when they are ramping. This is at least setup to fire in a semi/response mode.

Here is issues I see with current incarnation of this device. There is no "hit" recognition so on it's own it has no idea if a player calls himself out. So if player gets up and starts to walk out...he would get lit up again.

I also do not know if current incarnation has any sort of "distance" identification, meaning if something moves that appears over a certain size, does it consider it closer and thus does not fire. This is a problem as well, one that with addition of some sort of range finder feed back could be resolved in later versions.

So let me ask you this...if the device has distance safe guards that are 99% effective, and has the ability to identify aggressive actions verse "running away" sort of algorithms, would you consider it closer to allowable in certain field situations?

I guess the core point would be, what do you see as the key point in hindering it from making a presence on a field?
The fact that computers can not differantiate people apart, so it would shoot refs and players alike also its a robotic so if it malfunctoins it could seriousely injure someone and they can't here a reff yell cease fire to check if someone is injured
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The fact that computers can not differantiate people apart
No. The fact that this software can't is the issue.
(Computer systems are very capable of tracking humans and telling them apart, it just happens to be one of the hardest problems that is currently being solved in the computing world. Robotic weapons is a really cool field that I got out of very quickly, after I decided the idea of my mistakes killing people by accident wasn't worth the pay. I'm now in the game dev field. If people die because of the software I'm involved in, it's their own fault.)


As far as the safety factor goes, I don't see much of an issue of having a computer aim the marker and a human (Who is watching the same real time high-res feed the computer gets) press a button to fire. If wired correctly there is no greater chance of misfire than if the human were holding the marker themselves.

Heck, with the proper camera feeds you can even have better visibility while sitting in an air conditioned room watching it on a few big screen TVs than you could trying to look through a sweat and paint smudged mask.

With the proper facial recognition software applied, you can even red-light the unit and disallow it to fire if a face or face like object is detected.
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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i know this if off topic but if i was to make a remote weapon platform i would have it human operated, although if i was to go ai, i would use an ir strobe like device to decide safe
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:34 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The fact that computers can not differantiate people apart, so it would shoot refs and players alike also its a robotic so if it malfunctoins it could seriousely injure someone and they can't here a reff yell cease fire to check if someone is injured
Yeah I kinda fail to see how robot pulling trigger has any more potential to seriously injure someone than you or me pulling the trigger.

Differentiation is another issue, and I agree that pretty much any moving target is just that. Now also let me state that since I have not played with this toy (nor at $500 will I be doing it soon), you do upload object recognition profiles for it to target. I do not know how detailed they are, it may be that if it is wearing bright orange, then it does not get fired upon. That would be a question for the developers or someone who has one to play with.

Friend or foe differentiation....well if your friends know there is a robotic marker ensuring a certain field of fire is clear....if they get in the way then shame on them. Friendly fire happens in the game now, so not certain what the difference would be.

And there is nothing that says that with enough incentive or innovation, something like RFID could not be implemented to allow for friend or foe recognition.

I personally like the idea and support them in their venture to improve it and put some of the concerns behind them. Even if I could not bring one on the field, it would be cool for a field owner to have some things of this nature setup as a obstacle in the field. You could easily put a target kill switch there so that if you tag it hard enough it disables the droid.
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Old 06-24-2011, 01:39 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Pretty old news. You can actually buy them in kit form or get plans to build them. Pretty cool regardless.

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I'd wipe, play-on and overshoot.
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Old 06-24-2011, 04:31 AM   #19 (permalink)
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You can always do a colour recognition to avoid overshooting. Anyone who gets hit takes out a Neon Pink Rag. AI doesnt shoot anything within a 0.5m radius of neon pink. May require range finding equipment though.
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Also, it's not that good, especially if you watch near the end where you can see the laptop screen, the targetted point doesn't track the guy very precisley, even when he has a large white square, = high contrast target, against a staionary background. a camo'd crawler might make it.
It only tracks one target, 2 people could rush it.
Since the camera doesn't move the arc of fire is limited.

Since it's range is the same as the yours, just hose it down, one ball to the camera and it's defeated , even splatter would probably degrade it's effectiveness pretty fast.

For current use at a commercial field a human would have to have their finger on the trigger, they could be at a remote location though. even off field.

I think it would be fun to see, I'd love to try and assault a base protected by a few of these.
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