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The Dead Zone Paintball Related Chat

View Poll Results: Could this work?
This could work 11 21.15%
This could not work 26 50.00%
I like it but I'm going to post comments on tweaks 6 11.54%
What? 9 17.31%
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:55 AM   #21 (permalink)
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iit might become another type of paintball game like flaggerball or something, but not my cup of tea
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:10 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I think flagger should be forced to move forward with rules. If not, a team that is ahead in points, could play defensively after getting an early elimination and forcing the defending team to run to their guns or wait until time runs out. (Basically what now happens in X-Ball if team is ahead, but in flagger game the defender could not get a point even if they win on their defensive play.)

To prevent total camping, flagger could be forced to move forward:

1) Divide the field to 5 or 7 zones

2) Flagger is the player that needs to go forward to new zone as first player. If he is in the zone closest to his teams end of the field, nobody else can go forward either, which would give defenders relatively easy time to move upfield. That way the flagger will be relatively close to defenders and they can always have a change to eliminate him.

Having the flagger in front would also make him even more of a star player, a lot would depend on him making the moves. Also having a golden mask or similar showy piece of equipment to differentiate him from other players. (Golden helmet is used in some countries to mark the best scorer in hockey teams to help spectators follow players.)

Scoring could also be so that your team gets points every time the flagger goes to new zone, which would encourage offensive play even if your team is losing.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:06 AM   #23 (permalink)
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In short - the primary issue You want to adress is the lack of a focal point - ie instead of the players fighting over one ball/puck/whatever, you have 10 players each with his own supply of ammunition leading to a lot of confusion among spectators.

Thing is - if you make things too complex, players will simplify that for you simply by keeping the flagger in the back until a path is clear.


One solution I can think of, is assymetric play - right now the rules require the field to be symmetric, and both teams try to execute their objectives at the same time.

With assymetric play, you'd have one team on the offense, and the other on the defense.
A "point" would consist of two timed rounds, with the scoring team being the one to score faster or getting the flag further in case both teams fail to reach the target.

In this case the field favoring one side is not an issue, because you always have to play both sides.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:37 AM   #24 (permalink)
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My dad liked to watch bowling on TV. No sane person would watch bowling except those who play the sport and love the sport. Paintball is in the same boat...it just isn't fun for the average person to watch. Any remedy for this requires either equipment changes so drastic that the sport becomes unrecognizable, rule changes so complex that it becomes incomprehensible or dramatics such that it becomes a WWE type of spectacle. It seems that the last of those options is the only one that's been explored to any extent, but if you ask me none of them are good.

In addition to paintball I used to play roller hockey. For a lesson learned research some of the embarrassing things they did to that sport in an attempt to gain viewership.

Paintball just isn't much as a spectator sport IMHO.

-Keith
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:43 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I really don't see something like this working well. As others have said the best strategy in this case is for the flagger to hang back and wait for most, if not all, of the opposing team to be eliminated. (If there is no one left in the game to shoot at him, it becomes extremely hard for him to be shot.)

Rules like "The flagger must move up to a new zone every X seconds" or "The flagger must be the first into a zone" just makes reffing hard, and game play harder. Not to mention is isn't going to do much to make the game more watch-able.



Want Paintball on TV so it is interesting to watch? Get rid of the hosing by going to limited paint, and maybe drop to 3 man teams if you're worried about how many cameras you can have. (But honestly, 12-16 cameras for a professional level event shouldn't be unreasonable. Gets you at least one camera on every player, and the option of multiple angles on spots you expect the action to be.)


Want offensive/defensive play? Then give the offensive an extra guy, with a marker, and you score points based on how far up the field you run the flag before the time runs out. Allow the defenders to 'steal' the flag for bonus points.

Example:
'5 man' teams. a "game" becomes a series of 'sets' consisting of 1 offensive and 1 defensive action. Action time limit of 3 minutes.
For each Set, both teams are given 750 paintballs. This must be shared among the team, including the 6th man on Offensive, and may be divided as they please. Marked players carry all their paint off for the rest of the action.
"Flag" starts at the 1/4 line on Offensive's side, with sight lines from the Defensive 1/4 line.
Scoring based on accumulative hangings at the 1/2, defensive 1/4, and defensive end. (2 'hang' posts at centre line, 3 at 1/4 line, 1 centred on end line.)

(I would have to think about it more and crunch out the numbers to be reasonable, but award time bonuses for each hang in such a way that it is better to hang during the game, rather than waiting to clear the field and then run the flag. Such that scoring to the opposing 1/4 in the first half of the game will be more profitable than waiting for the last 30 seconds and running the three stations.)


Want real pro style sports broadcast on a game like this? Include wireless shot counters on all markers. Limited paint that must be used for Two actions would make for some very interesting play decisions. And a mostly accurate count of what the teams have left during the tail end of the first action is going to lead to crazy dramatic viewing. "There is no way they're pulling the next action off with that little paint!"
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:47 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I like the idea of the format but paintball has bigger issues than the format in regards to "breaking through"
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:04 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Actually, besides the morons who insist that paintball is a violent sport, while hockey (where players resolve to using their fists to settle disputes, even though it's against the rules) and fencing (which is a "made safe" simulation of two guys trying to make shishkebabs out of one another using swords) are both fine to be olympic sports.

I really think paintball falls in the area of fencing - two sides attempting to score points in a mock battle using safe to play objects rather than real weapons).


The lack of focus is the main issue - a layman just wouldn't be able to follow the action like he could with football (where there is only one ball).

And i think we've run into a bit of a dead end with the current state of affairs - symmetrical fields and high tech guns just turn the game into a shootout.

ROF is now capped more and more (Millenium capped at 10.5 in 2k9) for the purpose of creating more movement on the field, but that still gets people bogged down, especially once one side gets an advantage, the other is less and less likely to make a lot of movement.

Splitting the point into two offensive and defensive rounds with a 60s clock, where one team is given the flag to carry it as far as they can would likely turn the viewer apeal up, since spectators would know exactly which team is trying to make a push and judge their progress by the simple use of yard lines.

And of course then you could set up non symmetrical fields since whatever advantage you get in one round, you have to play against in the next.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:11 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Too much like Quidditch.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:28 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD.Pump View Post
Too much like Quidditch.
say what?
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:44 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD.Pump View Post
Too much like Quidditch.
I noticed the same similarity.

I think fencing is a fair comparison to paintball. This then raises the question as to why no one is ordering pay-per-view fencing. The answer (I think) is that it suffers the same problems as paintball. The action is too quick, too small and there are too many suble rules that prevent it from becoming a hack-and-slash. If fencing were two guys going to town on each other with broadswords out of a Def Leppard video lots more people would be interested. But then, it really isn't fencing anymore. I think that the same holds true here.

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