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|06-22-2007, 03:32 PM||#1 (permalink)|
Join Date: Jun 2007
A note to anyone who currently has buisness with Lee "Punisher" Kinney
Many people here and all across the internet have had dealings with Lee Kinney, AKA Punisher of Punisher’s Customs. Many have had good experiences, and received fine work.
However, many more are waiting for equipment, refunds or even just communication on projects. Recently a private discussion turned up some info, but lets start here.
IN response to a customer inquiring on a project –
And a post on the Phantom Owners Group (PhOG) and the Tinker’s Guild Tinker's Guild Tech Forum
Lets take a minute to point out that many people have received similar news, news of physical illness, news of accidents, runs of bad luck and now news of mental illness and a main job to support Lee while he digs out of a hole. Honorable, no? man working on the side while his business sits, trying to make things right. Its what I would do, and hopefully what you would do too. The right thing.
That’s what many optimistic customers said until a few started to look around, and connect the dots.
It looks as if Mr. Kinney is not putting the money into the debts (projects and money owed) he has built, but instead taken those monies and sunk them into his new hobby, car racing / customization.
Indications can be found at these links –
Neons.org - The best neon site on the net! :: View topic - Heh...sometimes I wanna smack my self in the ehad....
Neons.org - The best neon site on the net! :: View topic - Balad of the Angry Potato – this link in particular shows the cash he has put into 1 car, 2 engines and the time placed in custom work for a toy of his own. Speculate cost if you will, but estimates have been in the 5 to 10 thousand dollar range worth of work on that car.
Neons.org - The best neon site on the net! :: Search - a search of that forum leads us to see much activity.
One person speculated this - (original post cut)
Now take that info.. process the train of though, and take this post from another person into account –
These are just 2 posts in a sea of speculation, and sitting off to the side of an ocean of complaints. Just do a search online and you can find tons of complaints, and maybe even a bit of praise.. but mostly complaints.
Many will whine and cry about waiting and custom work… but the consensus is as follows. The man took paintballer’s money to sink into a few other paintballer’s projects, and then a bunch of it to sink into his own race car. When you are that far in the hole, you don’t start buying and showing off toys. Heck, even Doc Nickel shows us some of his things from time to time, and can reasonably say that he needs it, or even just wanted something. But he doesn’t hide it and give out stories of woes. Mr. Kinney has been saying one thing, and acting out another where he most likely wont be known for his cheery personality and schedule keeping.
Life shoots at everyone fast, and we all work hard.. those aren’t excuses for poor support, poor communication and possible contracts that will never be filled even though they are paid in full. Does the border on theft? The author of this is not a lawyer, so they wouldn’t know. Only speculation is contained here.
But it is speculation that all his current customers and debtors need to see with their own eyes.
As of this writing, we have seen very few resolutions. 1 comes to mind as of late, and it was still soured by a poor business to customer attitude.
Make your own decisions. For the time being, we are seeking contact from those who are owed equipment or services. This wont be used for nefarious reason, only to tally up and straighten out the info on the customer front.
Fill in this, and email it to firstname.lastname@example.org
Description of work requested:
Funds sent in advance:
Extra funds sent during scope of work:
Number of tries to contact:
Number of responses:
Verbal / email Resolution? (Y/N)
Resolution honored (Y/N)
Thank you for reading.
You don't know me...
Last edited by Azzy; 06-22-2007 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Fixed broken links by request.
|06-22-2007, 10:00 PM||#2 (permalink)|
Hmm...interesting read. Hard to predict just where discussion is going to go on this though...
|06-22-2007, 11:24 PM||#3 (permalink)|
Shi Tamagutsu Ka
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: the group W bench
A disturbing collection of data for those of us who have current and overdue projects with Punisher.
I'll keep the faith.
CT co-ordinator, Paintball Marshals
PTI #2691 ~ C1, C2, C5, C5a, C6
|06-23-2007, 05:17 AM||#4 (permalink)|
I hope he closes shop for good too. Matter of fact I'm glad a few have closed shop. You know what, custom doesn't take yrs. I've been playing almost 20 yrs. So I've heard it all.
Excuses don't impress me and neither do fan boys. don't make excuses for someone. There is no excuse. When I say I'm sending something I send it, when I tell someone I'm going to build something for them I do, without hesitation. That's me, I'm that kind of person.
I'll use Rainman as a good example. He works a full time 12 hr shift job, has a family, takes one day out of the week to do personal projects, and has family time, and yet has the time between all that to do custom work for customers and get it out on time.
Not only that ,does anodizing and powder coating too. So how does he do it? with commitment and time budgeting. Turning down work when he has a big load and taking a break when it's needed.
On top of all that he does limited runs of items and takes payment up front before he makes them. Then they are shipped on the date he says, unless he runs into a snag which I think delays about 1-5 days at the most.
Yes I have delt with him way to many times to count, we probably owe each other more then we care to admit, doesn't matter to me, cause my custom work is always on time when I need it.
I was his first ano job, and yes I spread the word about him fast. I bought him over to MCB a few yrs back. I don't think I have ever heard of a dissatisfied customer of his. Except for me, he treats me like dirt cause I love it lol.
I have actually held back on my return date so another customer can have their work done first.
Reason being, I have lots of guns and others don't.
Have I used the BIG 4, yes I have and not very impressed with them.
See I have this thing about money and a time line, I paid for it I want it when you said. Just like my house I had built. They gave me a date and I made sure it was done on that date. I didn't care if they had to work late or work weekends, I didn't care if the builder lost money, I didn't care if he payed the overtime out of his pocket. It was a home with a finish date and I made sure they bought it in on time.
That was also being out of State working and being away from the build.
So see I've heard all the excuses these guys can offer. Had all the hate and threat mail too. Search the net and found they gave the same excuses to everyone else.
What should be said is do the research and see what other excuses customers are getting for their work not being on time. I bet they are all consistent.
I really hope these guys form a mass law suit or small claims court type deal. Bankruptcy doesn't always work. See you have to file everyone you owe money too, then those people have to say yea or nay. It's actually up to the courts to decide once all involved are contacted. Then even if it is approved, those people still have the right to come after that person. So it's not as easy as it appears to some.
So guys don't really worry about that happening. Trust me, first thing they ask is where did the money go. With the new laws out there, it may all still have to be paid back.
Just my 2 cents, but what do I know.
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Last edited by blackrain; 06-23-2007 at 05:35 AM.
|06-23-2007, 05:37 AM||#5 (permalink)|
Lee is "it" this time and for about the last three years...
Poor bastid... imagine! Customers are such pesky little creatures and having to email/update/refund them or (heaven forfend) do their work is even more burdensome.
|06-23-2007, 08:16 AM||#6 (permalink)|
All nail Drum!
I remember seeing one post on Punisher's forum where a customer had pasted some of the responses Pun had sent to his emails (the guy wanted his marker and money back), and it was something to the effect of:
I know where you live, and I am the scariest ********* you'll ever meet.
I remember thinking: "I hope if this angry man goes to beat the guy up, he at least brings him HIS MARKER AND MONEY!"
|06-23-2007, 09:28 AM||#7 (permalink)|
I have no project at Punishers and thus no PERSONAL commitment either way.
However, this one on Doc's nearly made me cry.
Added quotes for you --Brewtt
Pumpenstein - NSA National Champions
TF's MCB Trust.
Last edited by Brewtt; 06-23-2007 at 11:25 AM.
|06-23-2007, 10:50 AM||#8 (permalink)|
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Des Moines, IA
I have become one of the "Old Paintball Guys" at my field. Not sure if I am sad or proud.
|06-23-2007, 01:30 PM||#9 (permalink)|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Would it be impertinent of me to suggest that this thread, from this point forward, be limited to those that currently have guns and/or money in the possession of Lee Kinney and not one of debate? I have no business with him so I shall not post again in order to abide my own suggested rule even if someone calls me a naughty name.
|06-23-2007, 10:47 PM||#10 (permalink)|
p8ntd dawrld & thensum
Join Date: Apr 2006
Drum: I also work at a Law Firm, so feel free to chime in on this... But how come nobody has thought about starting a Group/Class Action Lawsuit of some sort, against Punisher?
I can understand how one person alone trying to Sue, would probably spend more money than they initially paid him for whatever project, and wouldn't seem feasible, etc. etc. But what about everyone that was screwed, joining forces, hiring a lawyer or co., and suing the crap outta the guy? (if anything, take it to a smaller claims court... or even public... judge judy? lol).
After all these years, after everything I've seen, Punisher is not just a common theif, but has evolved into a learned Con-Artist.
small edit: Maybe have to sell that raced Neon, and take public transpo, jus like the rest of us! haha!
Last edited by PsychoBaller; 06-24-2007 at 12:24 AM.
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