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Old 05-03-2013, 10:00 PM   #161 (permalink)
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So if I understand correctly, under the rules proposed in OP, my drop out phantom is not stock class because my feed tube is not perfectly parallel to the barrel. Am I understanding correctly?
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:59 AM   #162 (permalink)
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If you are going by the antique rules yes.

If going by the rules proposed and largely accepted here it is. Here is the "Long and short of it":

Pump Paintball Gun - Some manually actuated mechanical manipulation must be performed to load a ball and/or cock the action (No pneumatic assist, electronic, or mechanical advantage is allowed to assist in moving the bolt to load the paintball)
Stick Feed (Single stacked paintballs, 20 round max) running parallel to the gun or Vertical Stick (10 round max). No force feeds/springs allowed.
Single 12-gram changer (No 6-paks, turret changers etc)
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Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:15 AM   #163 (permalink)
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Stick Feed (Single stacked paintballs, 20 round max) running parallel to the gun or Vertical Stick (10 round max).(No 6-paks, turret changers etc)
Emphasis mine.

So does it have to be exactly parallel? Because on mine, and I think any other drop-out phantom with the stock feed, the back of the feed is pushed up slightly by the drop-out changer, so it is not exactly parallel.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:34 AM   #164 (permalink)
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If your feed tube is short enough that the drop out is holding it up you likely dont have more than 10 rounds in that stick so you should be good to go.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertsr View Post
I don't so much make money, as provide a conduit for it's movement.
Mega Z for sale: http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/m...el-mega-z.html
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 05-11-2013, 05:59 PM   #165 (permalink)
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The "single 12-gram changer" rule is imho obsolete - today most efficient SC markers are able get 40+ full power, fully consistent shoots even with "rapid fire" trough chrono (= commonly even more in game, where has the powerlet time to warm up again, after the chill from CO2 expansion during shot).

40+ are imho for majority of the SC players enought to do not need change powerlets. 6-packs, turret changers and even CA tanks are then no advantage. CA tanks perhaps only saving costs for gas and allowing using wothout disadvantage less efficient, easily accessible markers, but they making the marker bigger and heavier.

You will have surely not advantage with CA Tigershark above stockgun from PPS or Carter.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:03 AM   #166 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinNH View Post
Emphasis mine.

So does it have to be exactly parallel? Because on mine, and I think any other drop-out phantom with the stock feed, the back of the feed is pushed up slightly by the drop-out changer, so it is not exactly parallel.
If it's pointed in the right general direction, it's probably close enough.

I'm fairly open in my own definition of what counts as 'stock class', it boils down to :

'12 Gram powerlet, manually actuated gun (pump/lever/bolt), stick feed with 12 or less balls'. An old Kingman New Hammer with a stick feed crammed onto the powerfeed and a 12 gram changer on the back bottle mount is effectively identical in play to a Phantom, after all.
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:56 AM   #167 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteout View Post
I'm fairly open in my own definition of what counts as 'stock class', it boils down to :

'12 Gram powerlet, manually actuated gun (pump/lever/bolt), stick feed with 12 or less balls'.
So, according to you, my Sheridan K2 isn't stock class?????

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Old 05-17-2013, 12:49 PM   #168 (permalink)
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... An old Kingman New Hammer with a stick feed crammed onto the powerfeed and a 12 gram changer on the back bottle mount is effectively identical in play to a Phantom, after all.
Surely not. I owning the old New Hammer and in stock condition thier ability get on highter muzzle velocities, and with the gas consuption he is far away from Phantom. His powertube with small ID and very heavy brass hammer, both ruining the efficiency of the stock marker. With stock Phantom you will get 3-4 times more consistent "long-range" shoots than with stock New Hammer and that is big difference for "effective play" (eventually see: my Kingmann New Hammer SC efficiency tunning report). With bigger powertube ID, BE Tigershark should be even better than New Hammer, but the difference between Tigershark and Phantom is:




And the there are many small differences which affecting the performance of the marker in game. Im loving my modified New Hammer and like semi-finished product it has been great purchase. But like Stock Class marker, in the out of the box condition... it is like comparing stock old style PGP with PPS Pug or Superstocker.

Last edited by 3022; 05-17-2013 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:54 PM   #169 (permalink)
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I didn't say it was a -good- stock class marker. My NSG Splatmasters aren't exactly marvels of efficiency either, but they're definitely stock class.

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Originally Posted by Born4Evil View Post
So, according to you, my Sheridan K2 isn't stock class?????

15 is a workable number too. I always forget the older K-series stuff had such a long feed tube on it. I was just trying to avoid the silly 'well it's a feed tube!' stuff with two feet of copper pipe sticking out of it.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:05 PM   #170 (permalink)
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Getting back on topic...

The original intent of this thread was to propose a new, universally-accepted definition of what would be considered stock-class equipment. A great idea, and aside from some minor knit picking it seems the majority of folks are on board with the proposed rules. After all, they are pretty much inline with what has been the historically-accepted definition of (modified) stock-class rules.

Another member has already asked "Where are the the stock-class games?" That's a great question. Obviously, strictly stock-class games are few and far between these days. Proposing and adopting a standardized definition of SC rules is all well and fine, but rather pointless if they're aren't any strictly SC games to implement them at.

After spending quite a bit of time in different forums searching for pure stock-class games I've found that there are only a few, isolated areas in the US that have them (I haven't found any outside the US, and am surprised not to find any in Canada). Look for yourself and you'll find lots of pump games, pump and pistol games, mag-fed games, and "gravity" games, but almost never a strictly stock-class game. And when I do find the rare "stock-class" game, the rules often will allow hoppers, direct feeds, CA/nitro and sometimes even semis in order to be as inclusive as possible.

Mike Casady of CCI says that he sells far more SC Phantoms than open-class configurations. Given the lack of pure SC games, this means that the majority of these players are either using the guns in small backyard games, or are simply testing their abilities by pitting their SC guns against all comers in whatever open games they attend. The latter seems to be what most players use their stock-class guns for.

And I think a more important question than "where are the games?", is "who is hosting them?". After all, without a game organizer there would be no game. Since the game organizer is the one establishing the final rules, it seems critical that they are on board with adopting any proposed rules for their games. So far, I have found one organizer in Hawaii (?), two in Cali (Bacci and alphabet), one in Mass (Splatttttt), and one in CT (me). Clearly we need a lot more stock-class game organizers if stock-class is expected to remain a viable format of play.

While the proposed rules do include some well thought out flexibility, I think it's important to consider the perspective and input of stock-class game organizers regarding rules for four important reasons:
1) they are the ones who will ultimately be implementing the rules
2) they have to consider multiple issues that extend beyond the simple configuration of the gun
3) they are familiar with the players who attend their games as well as their equipment
4) they typically have had a great deal of experience regarding which rules have worked and which have not for their games

I truly hope that we see some players who own SC equipment step up, and start organizing their own games. "If you host it, they will come!" Unfortunately, until we see a broader offering of stock-class games being hosted, adopting any type of new rules will be rather academic at this point.
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