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Old 10-30-2011, 03:34 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talfuchre View Post
To exclude Pump Assist markers.

TF
Pump assists are already disallowed before that part of the rule as Carter wrote it.

1. Pump Paintball Gun - Some manually actuated mechanical manipulation must be performed to load a ball and/or cock the action (No pneumatic assist, electronic, or mechanical advantage, must require a hand movement of at least 0.75 inches)

I'm perfectly happy agreeing to disagree and even to be on the loosing side of this disagreement. I am content with the rules as written, however I personally see no reason why it can't be as simple as -

1. Some action must be performed to load a ball and/or cock the action.

A Pneumatic Assist or MQ'd Sniper give no advantage over a T2, Gargoyle or even a Nelspot, when powered by a 12 gram and fed by a stick feed.
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Originally Posted by Robertsr View Post
I don't so much make money, as provide a conduit for it's movement.
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.

Last edited by Greenmtnphantom; 10-30-2011 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 10-30-2011, 04:16 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Yunno what I don't get, why did the Nelspot qualify with the original rules, since it has an autotrigger? not that it should ever be an issue of course.

Also I am proud to point out that the Retro 7 qualifies in every way as a true stock class gun, as long as the auto-trigger is not an issue
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:53 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Sorry I haven't been more responsive. That power outage thing up here in the North East with a freak snow storm.

Thanks for the response everyone.

I wanted to get across two things:

1. To show that what the rules really are, and what we think they are seem to be two different things. We call Phantoms stock class, but they really aren't by the original rules.

2. Then let's simplify the rules. There's no need for them to be so complex.


the .75 we can take out.. sorry CJ, it was a good idea though. The point of it was, as he already explained, was to make sure we allowed for some sort of manual actuation. We already tossed out the Pneumatic assist guns and what-not, and electronic guns. So we're just doubling up. We should re-simplify what we're trying to simplify.

Here's what I want... Maybe someone can help me rewrite that rule, and I'll give it a shot here also.

We want only pump guns. Fine. But we have to write it to allow any "pump" gun. This includes a bolt action (there's no actual PUMPING involved...) or the splatmaster... that's some sort of pushing action. How about a lever action?

How about just saying:

Pump Paintball Gun - Some manually actuated mechanical manipulation must be performed to load a ball and/or cock the action. (No pneumatic assist, electronic, or mechanical advantage is allowed to assist in moving the bolt to load the paintball).


...

Man, I tried rewording that a bunch of times, but that's what kept coming out. I think the exclusions are good enough that we don't have to specify the distance the bolt must travel.

Rules are meant to evolve, and even these simple ones can evolve again when the time calls for it.
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:07 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApoC_101 View Post
Yunno what I don't get, why did the Nelspot qualify with the original rules, since it has an autotrigger? not that it should ever be an issue of course.

Also I am proud to point out that the Retro 7 qualifies in every way as a true stock class gun, as long as the auto-trigger is not an issue
The original rules were basically never followed when you look through history.

The rules were made in 1992, and less than a year later at the masters, they were already editing the rules to their liking and to fit the new technology. But the whole point of the original stock class guys was to exclude the new technology and play paintball the way they remembered it in 1986. Those guys disliked the new pump guns as much as they did the semi's by all accounts.

Greenmtphantom: I know what you're saying about pneumatic assists, but to me stock means out of the box from the store... I just can't purchase a pneumatic assist that way. Also clicking a button to cock a gun just doesn't count as a "pump" to far too many. Lastly, since very few folks actually own one, excluding it is not an issue to me. I could care less if I play against one, but we do have to draw a line somewhere. so while I agree with you, we're still going to leave those out.

Anything that assists in pump/cocking the bolt is out.

As for an MQ though... I have no issue with that. You still have to pump the gun, and actually with an MQ, there's no auto-trigger.

It's all regretfully more complex then I would like still. But it's a good start.

If I had my way it would be: Pump gun, stick feed, 12 gram.

And that's pretty much what it is now, just a bit more specific for those that like to skirt the rules or those that really want to have it laid out and overly explained to them.
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:21 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Painthappy View Post

Anything that assists in pump/cocking the bolt is out.
And I really am cool with that. When I had my PA Phantom, I wouldn't even use it in a pump only game not to mention a Stock Class game. I get the need for the rules.

The new writeup of the rule sounds much better to me. I understood what it was trying to do with the rule but I didn't like the redundancy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertsr View Post
I don't so much make money, as provide a conduit for it's movement.
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:28 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Nice compilation of information!

I'm down for starting a South East/ Florida Stock Class group.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:57 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Wait. Nelspots are not autotrigger? I'm not home right now to confirm, but I'm pretty sure my 007 autotriggered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancecst View Post
I kind of agree and disagree with this rule. Having it basically eliminates PA, but why not just say no PA. A pump Mag has a pull that is greater than 3/4" but yet there is no tension on the pull until the last 1/8".

Also why say not electronic guns? It would take away the ability to use something like the Ego pump when it is finished, or a MQ sniper.
A spyder with a disconnected bolt from the hammer would have a super light, super short pump stroke by employing a lever. The blowback resets the hammer, a 1.4 inch pump stroke would easily move the bolt to load a ball.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:04 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancecst View Post
Just going by the rules I would say that a pump mag is ok for open class, or possibly SC depending on your setup. You have to move the handle 3/4 of and inch, granted all but the last 1/8" is not under pressure.

If you run the pump mag off of 12g and either a horizantal stick or vert 10 round you can use it in SC.
My pump Mag needs about 1/8" of total stroke, and about 4 ounces of force to cock it. The point of my proposal is to allow all of the pneumatic assist and whatever else people can come up with, but not give them a huge firepower advantage.

Of course... As I said... I could be solving non-existant problems



Ok... Now to throw a wrench into the works <evil grin>

Classify this marker:
Pneuamatic assist with a 3/4" pump stroke of nearly zero pressure
Has an AT

Complies with all other rules regarding power source and magazine.

Damn I love hypothetical situations <evil laughter>

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Old 10-31-2011, 03:25 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:29 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Painthappy View Post
No autotriggers
sounds like they are designed more to sell a splatmaster than to hold a stock class game. i can autotrigger with ****ing nelspot and that precedes all the other guns being used. when did the splatmaster stop production? why did they make an exception for nelspots?

Last edited by heinous; 10-31-2011 at 03:34 AM.
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