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Old 10-10-2012, 06:51 PM   #131 (permalink)
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I just walked into the back of their base, if you were out you had to raise your hand or marker... And you had to have a barrel bag on. I just walked in like I belonged, and no one even looked at my armband.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:26 PM   #132 (permalink)
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I've had "can't get the last guy" experiences like a lot of others in this thread due to fields having a "no getting closer than 'x' rule." What gets me even more frustrated than that is when you call the ref over and explain the situation and they just look dumbfounded. I was at a small field (no longer in operation) in the MD area and three of us had their last guy pinned in a bunker, and he wasn't shooting, wasn't peeking out, nothing. There was a 10' rule and it was one of those house-without-a-roof jobs with just one door and one window. Door was to the side and up against a tape line, so it's not like I could come around and get an angle. What's more, the guy was hunched up right under the window. I called over the ref. I explained very calmly that we had two viable options. "You can either call him out right now, or I can run up there and bunker him." The ref looked at me, and explained that if I violated the 10' rule, I'd have to sit out the next game. I said "Oh... Okay" and proceeded to sprint to the doorway and pop the guy in the shoes. He's out, game over. Ref comes over and informs me that I'm sitting out the next game. I say that's fine, I need a rest and some paint and air anyway. So, the next game I'm allowed in, we get into a similar situation. I call the ref over and said "you want a repeat?" He called the guy out right then and there.

The surrender rule itself isn't too bad, though I don't like the 20' limit. I'd prefer it to be 10' simply due to the fact that I've seen guys in one bunker 20' away from another call surrender and the refs enforce it even though they had no line of sight and no hope of shooting the other guy out otherwise.

I understand that "bunkering can turn young/new players off of the sport" thing. I really do, especially having helped operate a pro-shop and a field. But as one of you said earlier, you expect to feel the pain, it's just part of the game. Even so, even when I played tournament ball, I tried to aim for something that wouldn't hurt so bad when on the rec field. A shoe, someone's pack, their hopper, etc. That's not to say that I hit those things only when racing around a bunker at full speed, but at least I tried to keep it from being a bad experience.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:38 PM   #133 (permalink)
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My take on it, is that if you're not prepared to get shot at close range, you shouldn't be playing paintball in the first place. Young, old, delicate, whatever. Crap happens, especially on small tight fields full of people of different skill levels. I'm not saying people should tolerate getting lit up at close range, but if you can't handle single shots or double taps from inside 10 feet you don't have the constitution to be playing this game, period.

Giving people the option to surrender when you have them dead-to-rights is great, and should be practiced when possible. However, when a guy is tucked into a spot that no one can get to while following the 10-or-20-foot rule, and he is outgunned and continues to shoot instead of calling himself out, in my mind, that constitutes him waiving any right to complain about getting bunkered.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:50 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PistolRogue View Post
My take on it, is that if you're not prepared to get shot at close range, you shouldn't be playing paintball in the first place. Young, old, delicate, whatever. Crap happens, especially on small tight fields full of people of different skill levels. I'm not saying people should tolerate getting lit up at close range, but if you can't handle single shots or double taps from inside 10 feet you don't have the constitution to be playing this game, period.

Giving people the option to surrender when you have them dead-to-rights is great, and should be practiced when possible. However, when a guy is tucked into a spot that no one can get to while following the 10-or-20-foot rule, and he is outgunned and continues to shoot instead of calling himself out, in my mind, that constitutes him waiving any right to complain about getting bunkered.

At what point should the refs step in. I recall at one time we were playing with a group and it came down to a couple of us against a kid in a fairly short bunker. He was hunkered down and two of the players on my side were assuring, through firepower, that he would not come out either side. I stepped around the bunker I was in and walked towards his bunker with my marker aimed at the top of it. Once I got within a few feet the ref that was just outside of my teammates paint called him out. No I had not made the move but the kid had no idea I was coming and would not have had a chance.

I understand in a tournament "all bets are off" so to speak but there has to be some level of restraint in rec ball
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:56 PM   #135 (permalink)
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The surrender rule is needed. Here is a story where the rule was not enforced properly.
My friend flanked the other team. He was behind a rental's bunker and called for him to surrender with his barrel about 5 ft. from the guy. The guy turned around and pointed his gun at my friend and started yelling for him to surrender. The ref just stood there dumbfounded. After about 20 seconds he stood up and started firing repeatedly into my friend's chest. My friend responded with a much more potent string into the other guy. This went back and forth until the other player ripped his mask off and charged my friend. He was hopping around calling my friend a racist, homosexual, etc. (much more explicit than that )
The situation continued when we got back to the field's store. He had a group of friends that wanted a gang fight due to what they perceived as a racist attack. After about 20 minutes and an embarrassing scenario for the field, they were escorted away and told us to meet them at the Hooters up the street.
There was no meeting, end of story. The staff did a good job of defusing the situation afterwards. Things could have been very ugly with several people there with CCW's and the other group of guys wanting a racially fueled fight.
All of this could have been avoided with a clearly defined surrender rule and a ref ready to enforce it.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:57 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
At what point should the refs step in. I recall at one time we were playing with a group and it came down to a couple of us against a kid in a fairly short bunker. He was hunkered down and two of the players on my side were assuring, through firepower, that he would not come out either side. I stepped around the bunker I was in and walked towards his bunker with my marker aimed at the top of it. Once I got within a few feet the ref that was just outside of my teammates paint called him out. No I had not made the move but the kid had no idea I was coming and would not have had a chance.

I understand in a tournament "all bets are off" so to speak but there has to be some level of restraint in rec ball
Granted this is just my opinion, but in my mind, 1 or 2 shots from close up IS restraint. If a person thinks that's unbearable, I don't think they should be playing paintball. This is isn't golf, it's a sport where the primary objective is to shoot other people with pellets full of paint at 280-300fps. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't play. Same reason why I don't spar with MMA fighters.

I understand not wanting to beat up on renters, as I always play pistol or pump in the rare occasion that I play recball against renters/newbs, but stuff happens and the refs can only be so many places and looking so many directions at once. But if a player decides to stay in the game when he's knows he's outnumbered and outgunned, in my mind, he's saying "ok, let's do this". No one is forcing him to stay in.


Case in point- I had an incident at a scenario where an experienced player (he is on a team we play with and against on a regular basis), ran into the inside of a short enclosed trailer that I was already using the outside of as a bunker. This was at the front of the skirmish line at the time. So basically, I'm on the back side of this thing, and he's on the inside, the only thing separating us is a thin wall. My teammate alerts me that he ran in there, and I start checking each side to make my move. I'm pretty well covered on either side by his teammates, so if I move on him, it's going to be a 1-for-1 at best, no chance otherwise. Suddenly, I hear him yelling to the people covering him "Hey, make sure he doesn't come around on the other side!"... So I know he's about to go for it and come after me. I decide to beat him to the punch, run around the less covered side, double tap him in the gut from about 10 feet, and call myself out as a hail of paintballs from his team nail me.

He proceeds to bitch and cry about the 20 foot rule the field we were at had in place.

Was I supposed to come around and tell him to surrender with 6 of his team training their guns on me? Would he have done the same when he came around on me(with 6 of MY team training their guns on HIM) had I not beat him to the punch? He ran into that trailer knowing full well that I was there with two other people (who got tagged by the time I ran on him). To me, that was him acknowledging that all bets were off at that point. Was I wrong? Should I have just sat there wasting paint or waiting for him to come around on me instead? I don't think so. I believe when you knowingly run into a bunker in close proximity to a player on the opposing team you're waiving any rights to the 20 foot or surrender rules.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:11 PM   #137 (permalink)
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all depends on few things one is if there ref near by he can force some to take surrender or let pay goes. if your really close to someone he might pull him our or not. if your about 10 feet back he might not do nothing since your 10ft back. its also up to player to make call if he wants to get at short range or not. so if does not surrender. you can shot him or leap back and hope your far away not really hurt the person. or just shot him in spot where will not hurt as much or bad. it rule that need to be around. since you might get some that will always go for close range shots and really hurt some. since do not want spend time or risk of missing some one. for most of stock class players we will find times where we sneaked up on someone and scared the hell out them. since did not see or expect us coming.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:12 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maggot View Post
The surrender rule is needed. Here is a story where the rule was not enforced properly.
My friend flanked the other team. He was behind a rental's bunker and called for him to surrender with his barrel about 5 ft. from the guy. The guy turned around and pointed his gun at my friend and started yelling for him to surrender. The ref just stood there dumbfounded. After about 20 seconds he stood up and started firing repeatedly into my friend's chest. My friend responded with a much more potent string into the other guy. This went back and forth until the other player ripped his mask off and charged my friend. He was hopping around calling my friend a racist, homosexual, etc. (much more explicit than that )
The situation continued when we got back to the field's store. He had a group of friends that wanted a gang fight due to what they perceived as a racist attack. After about 20 minutes and an embarrassing scenario for the field, they were escorted away and told us to meet them at the Hooters up the street.
There was no meeting, end of story. The staff did a good job of defusing the situation afterwards. Things could have been very ugly with several people there with CCW's and the other group of guys wanting a racially fueled fight.
All of this could have been avoided with a clearly defined surrender rule and a ref ready to enforce it.
Had someone charged me on a field like that I would have probably unleashed a string to their family jewels. If that doesn't drop em I'm a trained BJJ,American Boxing,Thai Kickboxing fighter and I'd drop him right there probably have him on the ground arm behind his back and if so much as moved I'd pop a joint. Not to be hotheaded but someone charging you like that is meaning to do some serious *** kicking and at that point all bets are off. I'd do what I had to to stop the threat. With that said you point out that had the surrender rule been clearly defined it never would have got to that. I guess this is just an extreme example of why you need to have refs that aren't 15 year olds who play on your D5 or D4 team and get free paint and practice time in exchange. You need paid guys that have lives outside of the field and who have a vested interest in enforcing rules.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:16 PM   #139 (permalink)
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mercy, safety, surrender is needed. i have been lit up multiple times safetying people rather than shooting them up close, regular players included.

our local field is experimenting with not letting people get to the same bunker, people must be eliminated before advanced to the bunker they are/were in. if a player gets to the same bunker, they are basically resetting the player back to his previous bunker and not allowing them to advance until the player(s) are eliminated. i prefer allowing people to go up to the bunker and slap it twice yelling bunkered or whatever the safety world is.

something another field does that i really like is they closely watch the game (pretty good reffing), they will step in and call the game if only one player is left as everyone is surrounding the player to prevent a painful experience or as the advancing player gets too close. this requires more refs that are vigilant though.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:17 PM   #140 (permalink)
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The problem is making it a rule doesn't make people actually follow it. And it never will.
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