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Old 11-07-2011, 03:10 PM   #41 (permalink)
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In the middle of a game pull out a steno pad, scribble the request and have a ref run it over to the opposing player.

Opposing player unfolds the paper and reads
"Hi, I hope your game is going well
what terrific weather we're having eh!
You're probably wondering why the ref brought you this note
well, I just thought I'd try to open up the lines of communication a bit
after all these games can sometimes drag on for a while in a sort of stalemate
especially when players don't move around very much
so since you're in my mirror and I'm in your mirror I thought hey,
there's no reason why we shouldn't be friends, or at least civil towards each other.
I figured what better way to do that than to send you this note so I could
wish you a good day, and
see if you felt like surrendering.
So what do you say, feel like surrendering?
"

Hopefully in the time it takes the player to read the last line you've managed to park a ball on them.
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:20 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I don't surrender people, not worth the hassle. I either take a shot at something more protected or get close enough to tag them out.

I was surrendered quick skillfully by a friend of mine a few years ago. I was lying down on a ridge waiting to ambush some players (this was deep woodsball) and he was walking past behind me. He finally caught a glimpse of me under the brush, knelt down by my feet, and asked "what are you going to do?". I turned over my shoulder, saw him over me, and called myself out. He had a position of TOTAL dominance over me, which is when surrender should be used. It was impossible for me to flip, turn, or spin around in time.
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:23 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Come on, thats when you say dammit and start to get up like you're out without calling yourself out... jk.
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:26 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Let's just say this was prior to me investing in padded pants and I was lying prone with my legs apart. I wasn't risking anything.
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:08 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I no longer ask for surrenders for this reason. Partly because I strictly play stock class so I don't have the convenience of spraying like crazy if the player tweaks out and starts shooting at me when I yell surrender. And partly because yelling out surrender lets EVERYONE know exactly where you are.

And at least from what I've noticed, people would rather take my 1 ball at point blank range than multiple shots from an electro shooter at a distance.
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Last edited by Ramous; 11-07-2011 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:45 PM   #46 (permalink)
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First, I'm going to put my last bit of relevant info on here from the point of view as a referee. Then I'll respond to you, goat guy. My mistake for thinking I could post a conversational thread and not have it turn into internet commando "I am better than you, you suck!" nonsense. I talked about this recently to someone who was at this game: MCB really is coming off negatively in a lot of manners by forum threads. I've noticed a lot of this e-badassery and I don't think its good for the community. But hey, I dont really post that much here so, whatever.

When I am reffing, personally, I keep the skill level of the players in mind and balance the situation with the potential outcome. The worst possible outcome should sometimes be assumed. In cases where someone is about to clear a house and there are inexperienced people inside, I stay right with the play without compromising the situation. Then the person has the "dead to rights" kill ready to go, I may

-Let it happen
-Pause the intiator of the surrender and remove the players inside from play
-Rule that the surrender was inappropriate, eg, someone who calls surrender from 20 feet away when another player is still behind cover.

The surrender rule is indeed meant to protect less experienced players and varies from field to field. IN SOME CASES, I feel calling for a surrender and having the appropriate aim always takes MORE time than actually TAKING the shots. A keen referee should pick up on this and eliminate players accordingly, but this is difficult in the heat of the moment. I have seen just as many arguments over surrender rules as I have when people actually bunker each other; if anything, these arguments are compounded by a lack of understanding by both players, or the referee, or everyone involved. From a "skill" sense, no one really likes going up to someone, extending them a courtesy, and then getting a ball to the throat from point blank for their efforts. Obviously, local demographics apply; a field with a more experienced level of play or an older audience should not feel as inclined to enforce certain aspects of surrender rules as one that frequently gets younger players.

---

Part 2!


"The surrender rule causes the most consternation with inexperienced/bad players. This is the ultimate irony of the rule, because these are they players it is intended to protect. It takes practice, diligence, situational awareness, and a bit of psychology to properly use the surrender rule. (It also helps to have nerves of steel; note how OP was rattled in the video.) It requires characteristics of the player offering the surrender that they simply don't always have."

OK, I'm in the mood to play the internet game for hahas. I'm going to take your comment about blazing fast speed as blatant sarcasm, so lets not even pretend it isn't. I generally don't go around telling people they are inexperienced or bad players on threads, even if they are. It's sort of inappropriate, but I realize it makes the poster generally feel confident about themselves. Big boy pants on and hard feelings ahead!.

I generally agree with russc. We don't want to penalize aggressive players and having "no approach" rules makes for a boring game. Let me re-re-reiterate that field design often has large bunkers that accomodate tons of people where there is no viable option to "sit and pick them off". Do you propose a serious player just sits there and twiddles his thumbs?

As the OP, let me ask you this. If I'm so rattled, how do I manage to precisely one or two ball the poeple in the room? I don't like people screaming at me that I'm a cheater when they can't shoot for crap, so yes, that is irritating. How do I manage to nicely shoot the guy in the corner in his ridiculous hat instead of destroying him utterly? I even one ball the guy complaining at me in the loader. If I was really out of control and being malicious I would have just stuck my barrel in his face and ruined his day. That would have accomplished absolutely nothing. I will reiterate that someone actually came up to the field owner later on and complimented me on my level of control in the situation. We can all nitpick one video I took during my 'year off' of paintball and somehow magically come up with a clear and definitive opinion of my personal ability, sure, why not. That sounds as fun as Rick Rolling or cat videos. Patty Cake is one of my favorites. Cats Playing Patty-cake, what they were saying... - YouTube

Yes, I am pretty blazing fast. Ask anyone who has played with me. On the other hand, a second is not as short as people think. If you get yourself a pact timer used for shooting sports, you can set a "par" time for yourself and experiment in all sorts of situations. If you come into a port, you generally should see what's in the port because you want to know whats in there. At that point, if you can't eliminte everyone inside, then you take a side of the window (in the video, I'm towards the right of the window, rather than the left). If your barrel is already up, the shot to shot transition does not take long. There should not be a need for excessive upper body movement here. If you have stable legs, your upper body pivot in a port/window is rarely an extensive amount of movement; the exception are wide windows or slots in a CQC "Killhouse" situation. Contrast this with the angles of the shooters inside. Many of them were not in a good position to quickly shoot back. Guys in the front had to physically turn all the way around. Three other people had to lean all the way into the window. Only one player had a reasonable straight on shot, which is the guy that complained. He opted to try to blindfire around the window and missed his opportunity to mutual out and save his teammates.

Finally, in this particular situation, there was really no angle to eliminate any of these players from our angle from a distance as we were coming from behind and they were all ducking below the height of the windows. The specific portion of this game called for arbitrary firefights with no objective and no penalty for dying, nor did it really encourage staying alive. Myself and the group behind me could have stayed and watched this house until the time of this section of the game expired, shot no one, and then would have had to walk all the way back to our base. Excuse me for being an aggressive but in control player.

I don't have a "survive or die" mentality in recball when there's little kids and squids around. For a site that's supposed to be geared around newer players and recball, I think a few posters, through the desire to sound e-badass or through genuine opinion, may be a bit misguided on how best to approach recball scenarios. At the risk of sounding crass, if you're really ready to juice and be juiced, a tournament is the appropriate place to graduate into.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:35 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrapIron View Post
In the middle of a game pull out a steno pad, scribble the request and have a ref run it over to the opposing player.

Opposing player unfolds the paper and reads
"Hi, I hope your game is going well
what terrific weather we're having eh!
You're probably wondering why the ref brought you this note
well, I just thought I'd try to open up the lines of communication a bit
after all these games can sometimes drag on for a while in a sort of stalemate
especially when players don't move around very much
so since you're in my mirror and I'm in your mirror I thought hey,
there's no reason why we shouldn't be friends, or at least civil towards each other.
I figured what better way to do that than to send you this note so I could
wish you a good day, and
see if you felt like surrendering.
So what do you say, feel like surrendering?
"
I think I want to try that next game... Print it out on some nice paper and send it to him in a letter and when he's reading through it proceed to walk up on him and stand behind him until he's done. Then ask for a surrender.



Could not manage to get the video to play...

I have only ever had a few people refuse to surrender that stayed on the field. I personally like getting surrenders more then shots to the point where I've considered carrying a paintbrush with lipstick on it like one of the scenario teams which I can't remember off the top of my head.

I did have 20-23 people all with their backs to me that surrendered at First Strike. This was also at night. Boy were they mad... Kept saying that I didn't have my arm-band up high enough... They did eventually walk off though.

I also had a game over in Titusville where I surrendered 13 at once.

My favorite though was sneaking up right behind someone and setting my marker down and picking up a stick. I then proceeded to barrel tag them with the stick. He did not appreciate that.
I also remember a group of three that were in a small bunker that I tried to surrender the dad turned to try and shoot though. I dropped down into the bunker next to me and snapped out and managed to hit one of them. Turned out it was a kid I didn't like having to do that.

Most of the people that I do try and surrender and they refuse I remember and know to just shoot them right in the small of their back. (Mostly the ones that have turned and shot me... 4 or 5 in the 12ish years I've played)


There are several problems with the surrender rule and I hate when an experienced player turns to try and shoot at me.
Most have not been successful the worst though is when I scare a little kid when I yell surrender.
Do you think you're dead player or freeze would work better?
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:06 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I think my best surrender was when I suck my gun barrel on Grimaces ear and put my hand on his other shoulder and said, "hey grimace, you're out." But I guess thats more of a barrel tag.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:55 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Last time I played with a enforced 10' sureender rule, large multi-person houses were exempt from the rule and players were warned "do not go in the houses if you dont want to be shot close up". This scared a lot of newer players. It has gotten much better when the speed limit was set to the equivalent of 20' (275 fps) instead.

As far as my opinion on surrenders, I would be happy if a rule came into use that the bunkering player may call "you're out" or "checkmate" while having the other player dead-to-rights and the bunkered player given 1 second of grace period to call out before being shot. The rule obviously applies to suprise bunkerings and is optional on the part of the attacker.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:40 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Two stories:

1. I was sneaking through the houses just tapping people on their shoulders with my Zeus in my other hand pointed at their face.

2. With my trracer, I ran up to mercy this kid that got holed up in a plywood tank. After I yelled out, this kid panics and snap shoots just to the side of my head...
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