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Old 11-08-2011, 06:57 PM   #61 (permalink)
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MERCY for some reason just came out of my mouth for some reason. Not sure why X.x Maybe cause im so used to saying it lol
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:24 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Ok coming at this from a player and a ref I'll say this. Typically when I play a surrender rule is in place, but it stands as an option to the receiver. If they want the shot they can play John Mclain, yell "Yippy'kyha" and try to out draw you, at which point I tell players and myself double tap. If the player is younger I duck for cover, I'm not going to drill some kid who may not want to play again or come off looking like a bully jackass lighting up fresh meat. If it's an older new player, he should know better, take the shot. Then again, I'm not small, I'm 6'4" with broad shoulders, most players see me come around a corner they think about it and give up with out much coaxing. As a ref I make it very clear coming up close on another player to give them a chance, not many people want to take a hit at 5' or less, hell I don't want to, someone gets that close to me with out me knowing already earned the kill. Basically I'm giving the aggressor a green light if they feel threatened and even then I tell them to aim for the chest or hip. I also make it sound like a huge pain in the *** to bunker and make a more convincing argument to flank unless it's the last player.
As far as houses, basic rule of thumb from most of my fields is hit the house and you get the clear, if it's small. 2 reasons for this, 1 it's saves you a few bucks from buying a grenade, 2 the John Wayne last man standing affect. Essentially if adrenaline is pumping a group of people are likely to drill each other till the other gives before giving up themselves. If you have enough refs to stop that kind of blood bath then I'd let it play out, straight up gun fights especially if there's room.
Going off the video, the ref was weak, second that dudes blind shot came around the corner I would have been flipping ****. As a player, you did what I would have done, or atleast what I hope I would have done, you gave them a chance, they didn't take it, double tap around the room.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:48 PM   #63 (permalink)
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I think yelling to get a surrender is the wrong way to do it. The most successful surrenders I've gotten was when I sneaked up on someone, posted up and calmly got the players attention with a 'Hey player' or 'Yo, buddy. Surrender?'. Startling the opponent provokes a fight or flight response. If you just get their attention, you get the 'huh? oh crap.' response. No drama.

Forcing a surrender hardly works.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:23 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Surrender rules vary a lot. Every place that uses one might also change it from time to time. Agree or not I follow the fields rule to the letter.

My personal application of a surrender will always be influenced by the player on the other end of my marker.

If that person is young / new or female I will err on the side of getting shot back. If my play ruins their day with some close up shooting then I have failed. Low volume engagement with these players tends to get a more desirable reaction than shouting. It draws their attention without the fight or flight adrenalin surge.

Other players only get the offer if I have position dominance and surprise on my side. I have seen plenty of players attempt surrenders when they had neither. The results were always negative. It often ends with a lot of whining to a ref. I once had a player attempt a surrender on me by skylining himself from 40 feet away. He went buggy on me and brought back a ref. He told the ref exactly what happened. When I agreed with the account the ref told him he was a dead player. He was not pleased.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:03 AM   #65 (permalink)
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I just always go by what Pacman used to tell us about the surrendering back in the MXS days.

Aside from the "take the hit! three, two,..." and you never say "one" sort of approach he'd say don't bother trying to surrender a whole group of people, because you'll tend to get that group of people that can't even decide on a type of pizza to order and you're somehow expecting that they'll all come to the same conclusion and surrender. It just won't happen, and when that one player in the group decides to try his quick draw skills he just made the decision for the whole group.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:56 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Sorry thumper, my whole life is tired and personal. I'm an old man PMed a response to a reply, will let the rest of the thread go. Thanks again everyone.
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:10 PM   #67 (permalink)
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The surrender rule is was to subjective for it to be enforced properly, each person reacts differently when surrendering or being the surenderee. The only time I've called myself out on a surrender was when someone reached down from the upper floor of a building and poked the side of my head with his barrel. Every other time I've spun in an attempt to get a tradeoff and have had mixed reactions; some think it was a good move and we pound fists, others flip out and start screaming words not appropriate for the children at the field. Even this one time where I was nearly laying flat on the ground and my brother jumped over my cover hopped ontop of me with his gun in my back yelling at me to get out I still tried to flip over and take a shot at him before he put one into my back.

On the flip side when I'm going for a surrender or a barrel tag I'm fully aware that the player may try to do the same to me, he may quietly walk out or turn around and we let each other rip 10+ into each other.

That's why I think it's too flimsy of a rule to be enforced properly so instead just try not to aim for the softspots when sneaking on someone. (Head, neck, balls)

When it comes to building situations removing the surrender rule simplifies things and everyone can understand the basics of "If you're shot you're dead", bar special game rules. (Rockets, bombs, etc) Malicious overshooting that comes with it is a whole nother topic.

Edit:

At my local field every player is clearly told that the surrender rule is optional. Everyone knows; including renters; that you don't need to call yourself if someone surrenders you and you can try to go for the spin but don't be suprised if you get shot point blank if you do. This is the reason why bunkering is commonplace here yet very little people get angry about it and the majority that do didn't understand the rules.
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Old 11-09-2011, 04:29 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Ah the surrender, the ninja player's best friend and worst enemy. I'll admit that I only read to about page 3, then tl;dr'd the rest of the thread. That being said, I love surrender rules, but only when they're implemented well.

Surrendering people is a very personal thing, and depending on the people you're playing with and/or against, should determine whether you use the surrender or not. Aside from that, there are a few rules to follow when making the surrender.

If at all possible, surrender players one at a time, and quietly/calmly enough that both you and the surrendered person are not creating a scene. Make sure you're close enough to be heard (masks are a pain to talk through) but far enough away that you have time to react should they spin on you. There should also be enough cover between you two that you can take your shot (gun should be up, posted on the person, you should have the shot lined up before offering it) and pop back in before their gun comes anywhere near being pointed at you.

Another mistake people make is asking for surrenders head-on. These are mistakes because the transition from 12 o-clock to 11 o-clock is a lot easier than transitioning from 12 o-clock to 6 o-clock. The only time this is acceptable is when you are sure the opponent is out of ammunition, or changing air (in the case of stock class players).

Doing a surrender on multiple people within a building might be easy, however, the more players inside, the less likely this is to happen (some fields excluded, who have the "tap on the wall, everyone's dead" rules). Having people on the opposite end of the building as well, I'd say the surrender was dead from the get go.

My recommendation would have been instead of offering a surrender, take the time to take individual shots and eliminate the players individually. That way you don't run the risk of overshooting children who may be in the building as well, and have plenty of cover to maneuver around for getting different shots. (I'm assuming there was more than just the one window where you could see into, correct me if I'm mistaken) It takes a few moments for people to realize where incoming fire is coming from, especially inside a building where everything echos.


Failing that, taking 2 or 3 out with you couldn't be a bad thing
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Old 11-10-2011, 02:12 AM   #69 (permalink)
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I like that my field doesn't allow people to try to turn and shoot because frankly, they are giving you a chance to get out without unncessary pain...and they had the drop on you. If they had just shot you, you wouldn't have had that chance to spin around and take you out, period.

So while you can say you're just not one to give up, really, I feel like you just won't accept that you were bested, in a way....

I forgot if this has been said already.
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Old 11-10-2011, 06:32 PM   #70 (permalink)
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IMO refs allow a single guy to walltap surrender an entire building is crap and unrealistic but its the rule at my favorite field.
Serves em right in my opinion. If multiple guns can't cover multiple angles and prevent them from getting run up on, they all deserve to go out.
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