Paintball

[Mr.Smith]

Hey all,


Looking to tap into the knowledge you guys all possess, this time about the workings of spiders and azodins, the KP in particular. I recently picked up an Azodin KP, and was screwing around with it and a bucket changer today.

I've got a whoooole bunch of questions. Again, please be patient. I know absaloutly nothing about these.


-How does the base design of a spyder work? (animations get bonus points)

-How does the triad ball retention system in Azodin markers work?

-IIRC, the KP's reg isn't the front grip, its at the back, and the grip is just a gas-thru? I could be entirely wrong with this. Some people have been saying it doesn't even have a reg?

-If that grip is actually just a gas-thru and not a reg, i can just screw my bucket changer in there, no? The threading is standard ASA threading, seems to be no problem.

-What causes the farting noise associated with azodin markers?

-Is the KP's feed neck threaded, and if so, what threads? Is it removable? I'd like to get something else in there, the current one is huuuge.

-If you can, i'd also be nice to get some info on the "hush bolt". Its an aftermarket bolt available from azodin themselves, was thinking of picking it up when, (or if) i get some money. Some people i've talked to rave about it, some people say its a waste of money.


Thanks guys.

[snoopay700]

This should be in ask the experts.

-http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animations/spyder.gif

-Not familiar with the system

-Probably not, see the animation. Adjusting the velocity is likely changing the compression of a spring. Have you not taken the marker apart yet? That's the first thing i always do haha.

-sounds logical to me, should be able to run it even if it is a reg, just need to alter the main spring

-again, not familiar. Do you mean when you purge (run out of air) or just in general? Most likely the hammer hitting the valve.

-again, not familiar

-again, not familiar, but i often find the stock bolts to be best on a lot of markers.

Hope this helps. I know spyders, never had an azodin or held one, just seen them.

[philosophia]

Originally Posted by Mr.Smith

Hey all,


Looking to tap into the knowledge you guys all possess, this time about the workings of spiders and azodins, the KP in particular. I recently picked up an Azodin KP, and was screwing around with it and a bucket changer today.

I've got a whoooole bunch of questions. Again, please be patient. I know absaloutly nothing about these.


-How does the base design of a spyder work? (animations get bonus points)
SEMI: Standard stack tube blow back. You pull the trigger which releases the sear, and in turn, the hammer and bolt (they're attached). The hammer is pushed forward by a spring and strikes the valve. The valve opens and the air goes up through the bolt, while a portion goes back through a notch in the valve stem pushing back the hammer.
PUMP: Same as above, except without the notch in the valve stem and the pump pushes back the hammer and operates the bolt.

-How does the triad ball retention system in Azodin markers work?
There are small milled sections in the barrel where an oring sticks through. The o-ring stick out far enough to stop double feeding, but it's flexible enough that it doesn't break all paint. I'm not sure about the current markers, but the first run had issues with the o-ring breaking constantly.

-IIRC, the KP's reg isn't the front grip, its at the back, and the grip is just a gas-thru? I could be entirely wrong with this. Some people have been saying it doesn't even have a reg?
The ones I've seen that are completely stock didn't have a regulator. It might be different now, but the local ones that were purchased when they first came out don't.

-If that grip is actually just a gas-thru and not a reg, i can just screw my bucket changer in there, no? The threading is standard ASA threading, seems to be no problem.
Should be able to without a problem, I've done it before.

-What causes the farting noise associated with azodin markers?
The springing and stock air pressure is less than optimal, causing the hammer to bounce off the valve after it strikes it the first time.

-Is the KP's feed neck threaded, and if so, what threads? Is it removable? I'd like to get something else in there, the current one is huuuge.
Ion threaded I believe.

-If you can, i'd also be nice to get some info on the "hush bolt". Its an aftermarket bolt available from azodin themselves, was thinking of picking it up when, (or if) i get some money. Some people i've talked to rave about it, some people say its a waste of money.
No idea, I bought and sold mine well before people started to really like them.

Thanks guys.

Answers in bold.

EDIT: Spyder Animation from Deadlywind

[Falcon16]

Firstly the base design of a spyder is a poppet style valve so hammer smacks valve to open it and then the valve directs air up through the bolt and it goes out the face of the bolt propelling the ball.

Second I'm not super familiar with that system unfortunately

Thirdly in stock form the KP doesn't have a reg at all. The front grip is simply a gas through

Forth potentially that would work if the changer is standard ASA threads. I don't know how efficient it would be on 12g's but it's worth a try

Fifth the fart noise is the hammer hitting the valve then rebounding and hitting the valve a few more times with less force commonly known as hammer bounce. very common in a lot of spyder style markers especially blowbacks that the KP is based off of. It can be solved with a lighter hammer spring or a heavier hammer with the stock spring so that the hammer doesn't have as much excess energy when it hits the valve.

Sixth the KP and it's derivatives take Ion threaded feednecks so q-locks and the like will fit.

Lastly I'm not familiar on the hush bolt system unfortunately.


I hope this helps

[alpha434]

There is an Azodin faq section in the Pump Markers area in the armory, too.

As far as I know, the gun doesn't have a reg. The adjustment at the back, like Snoop says, is spring tension adjustment on the hammer.

You can screw your 12g in there... You can often do that with a regulator, also... The big problem is feeding liquid Co2... Something that 12g's don't have much of.

Farting noise is inherent in the valve design. It's the hammer bouncing off the valve stem.

The hush bolt is like old cocker venturi bolts. What quiets the shot is actually a restriction-inherent design, which increases the duration that air is applied to the ball. Some people swear by them. I haven't seen results to be worth 50 dollars over stock. (I don't know the price of the hush bolt for Azodin guns, though.)

[braelito]

to fix the farting caused by hammer bounce, fiddle with how far the knob below the bolt is screwed in, or compress/stretch the spring.

[usagi_tetsu]

I don't know if they ever fixed the triad retention system, but I just take the o-ring off and use an underbored sizer on my TechT iFit kit to keep rollouts from happening. I can't remember anyone saying anything good about it, might as well get a decent paint-to-barrel match to get consistency anyway, and leave the gimmicks out of it. Neat idea, would have been better if they had used something with a little more durability.

[nerdcore]

- how spyders work, more than covered. Azodins are just spyder clones, which some people aren't aware of... or not willing to admit. Azodin threw better features in there, though, so you are getting your money's worth.

- triad ball retention system is meh... o-ring to keep the ball in place doesn't have the longevity of an actual tight bore barrel, obviously. I'd get a new barrel or the iFit kit before the o-ring wears out.

- KP didn't used to have a reg, but the 2011 version does. Reg = foregrip. You adjust the reg really only to get the right input pressure, then you make velocity adjustments in the back.

- i wouldn't trust the KP with a 12g. Not stock, anyway.

- Spring kit & new valve would help a little with the farting. Reduced the farting on mine (when i had one). Found a 32 Degrees spyder valve on ebay, but you may be able to run other spyder valves, not that there's many aftermarket ones available (that one, AKA Tornado, and Maddmann Rocket are the only ones i know of). Higher flow valve lets you drop the input pressure a bit, and springs help you fine-tune.

- Feedneck is ion/impulse threaded. I didn't have issues with the stock one, but people complained more about it being a twist-lock than they did the size. It looks big but it's really not that big.

- Bolt upgrade would be a waste. Maybe with an electro, where one could benefit from faster cycling, but being a pump, it won't do anything for you.

I liked my KP, a little sad that i sold it. Got one before they included the reg, and before they redesigned the single trigger frame to be more comfortable. Which reminds me, you will want Azodin's single trigger frame. Really gives it the classy pump feel.

[kynan]

The KP 2011 (one you have) DOES have a regulator.

[Mr.Smith]

Originally Posted by kynan

The KP 2011 (one you have) DOES have a regulator.

Annnnnd it still runs without it right?
The velocity adjustment is at the back, i don't see why not.