mcarterbrown.com
 

The Dead Zone Paintball Related Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-05-2012, 03:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
Wookie D*ck
 
russc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC

UV, there are a couple advantages of using 60fps...I used to be all for it, but I think I'd now lean towards 1080p as connection speeds and viewers' processing power improve over time.

1. Slow motion.

You can't show the 60fps at full speed on YouTube, but by using a 60fps project, you can slow the video down when you need, with far smoother results than with 30fps.

2. Eliminating rolling shutter effects

I personally find that shooting in 60fps reduces rolling shutter distortion, but whether that is worth the extra storage space and rendering time is up to you.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that deshaker plugins seem to have a hard time coping with wide FOVs. They really make me seasick on say, a GoPro.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
oldschool play is about sportsmanship and respect, oldschool gear is available on Ebay.
russc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 03:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
Trails Of Doom
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oxford, Ohio

What are you using for editing?


With my Sony Vegas 10 platinum, I can drop both my videos into the same timeline one on top of the other, (I put the helmet cam on top, so it is primary). The sync up the audio of both video signals, so that they are perfectly aligned. Then start editing. I do all my cuts on both videos at that point, and then I can just pull down the video opacity of the helmet cam and see the zoomcam whenever I want to see where I want to put it onscreen. Makes editing multiple streams MUCH faster than anything else I have tried.

Your gun cam footage is kind of blown out the whites are too hot, probably due to the zoom lens, but I would take that video stream and adjust it before you start editing so it is on the entire clip. Once you get the settings adjusted then you set that as a button, so you can easily change it next time by just dropping that filter on your gun cam video file.

I wouldn't use that reticle, if you want one, add it with your edit software later, all post production stuff should be done AFTER you have the video, nothing is worse than a great shot blocked by something that you could have turned off...

60fps is only needed for slow motion in the post production stage, there is no reason to upload to youtube 60fps video. (their processors can't handle it very well, and it just doubles your video files, and rendering time). Output the highest quality 30fps video and be done with it. I used to use the highest quality files but I kept having youtube upload problems, and I went to a lower quality file type and it works much better now, but still looks great.

slow motion is your friend with shots like this, as it is very hard to see on video the paint flying. As your eyes are more like 250fps... And video cameras are 30 or 60...

I've done the picture in picture, and it is hard to see, so now I go full screen and just switch between them. This is my latest style of post production, and the reticle is only on the ZoomCam stuff. I am also zooming in on my Contour Roam footage in editing. And I zoom in on my ZoomCam footage in editing as well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-80_HBMJXtM

Last edited by FreeEnterprise; 06-05-2012 at 03:07 PM.
FreeEnterprise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 03:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
Wookie D*ck
 
russc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC

The guncam is probably blowing out because it's an older model...I remember some of those older cameras had pretty wild auto white balancing. You pop out of a bunker, and it'll take a few seconds to adjust. Quality of cheap cameras has come a long way...I mean, my main FOV cam is a modified $40 ebay cheapie, with decent results.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
oldschool play is about sportsmanship and respect, oldschool gear is available on Ebay.
russc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 06:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
Active Member
 
Silent Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: bucks PA

CCM Fan
Very interesting thread.
__________________
TEAM PAIN

SPBTV

Feedback

Other Feedback

"It's the Ones Who've Cracked That the Light Shines Through"
Silent Savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 07:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
Paintball Ballistician :P
 
uv_halo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by russc View Post
UV, there are a couple advantages of using 60fps...I used to be all for it, but I think I'd now lean towards 1080p as connection speeds and viewers' processing power improve over time.

1. Slow motion.

You can't show the 60fps at full speed on YouTube, but by using a 60fps project, you can slow the video down when you need, with far smoother results than with 30fps.

2. Eliminating rolling shutter effects

I personally find that shooting in 60fps reduces rolling shutter distortion, but whether that is worth the extra storage space and rendering time is up to you.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that deshaker plugins seem to have a hard time coping with wide FOVs. They really make me seasick on say, a GoPro.
How do you think the slow motion came out?

I'm not sure if I'm seeing any rolling shutter in my footage, if it is, could you point it out to me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeEnterprise View Post
What are you using for editing?


With my Sony Vegas 10 platinum, I can drop both my videos into the same timeline one on top of the other, (I put the helmet cam on top, so it is primary). The sync up the audio of both video signals, so that they are perfectly aligned. Then start editing. I do all my cuts on both videos at that point, and then I can just pull down the video opacity of the helmet cam and see the zoomcam whenever I want to see where I want to put it onscreen. Makes editing multiple streams MUCH faster than anything else I have tried.

Your gun cam footage is kind of blown out the whites are too hot, probably due to the zoom lens, but I would take that video stream and adjust it before you start editing so it is on the entire clip. Once you get the settings adjusted then you set that as a button, so you can easily change it next time by just dropping that filter on your gun cam video file.

I wouldn't use that reticle, if you want one, add it with your edit software later, all post production stuff should be done AFTER you have the video, nothing is worse than a great shot blocked by something that you could have turned off...

60fps is only needed for slow motion in the post production stage, there is no reason to upload to youtube 60fps video. (their processors can't handle it very well, and it just doubles your video files, and rendering time). Output the highest quality 30fps video and be done with it. I used to use the highest quality files but I kept having youtube upload problems, and I went to a lower quality file type and it works much better now, but still looks great.

slow motion is your friend with shots like this, as it is very hard to see on video the paint flying. As your eyes are more like 250fps... And video cameras are 30 or 60...

I've done the picture in picture, and it is hard to see, so now I go full screen and just switch between them. This is my latest style of post production, and the reticle is only on the ZoomCam stuff. I am also zooming in on my Contour Roam footage in editing. And I zoom in on my ZoomCam footage in editing as well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-80_HBMJXtM
I'm using Vegas Movie Studio 11 (Platinum, not the pro version).

Actually, I have a significant limitation- fixed focus. I think your suspicion as to the cause (the zoom lens) is spot on. When bright bunkers, come into the near field, it gets pretty strange. You should see what happens when I point it at the ground- patterns seem to emerge in the blur :P I'll definitely have to learn how to fix that in Vegas though, and I may be able to adjust the auto balance function of the camera.

Thanks again for the feedback and advice!!
__________________
FN303SD Totmacher 13 | SP 'Woodstalker' Ion | 1989 Line SI Bushmaster SI Deluxe
First Strike Round Field Listing | External Ballistics, FSRs and PBs | My Feedback
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.
uv_halo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 09:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
Nerd
 
Diomedes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Millburn, NJ
Send a message via AIM to Diomedes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Savage View Post
Very interesting thread.
Seriously, this is a great crash course in filming paintball.
__________________

ZDF42 #61 "Darwin"
Zombie Defense Dispatches <--YouTube channel. Reviews, helmetcam, odds and ends. Updated more-or-less weekly. Subscribe!
Looking for a new mask? See how they compare.
"Integrity is doing what's right, even if nobody is looking." My MCB feedback
Diomedes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 09:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
Trails Of Doom
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oxford, Ohio

Now lets talk about arch... Every shot is slightly different as the distance away changes "where" you are aiming. We aren't shooting real guns, so a 50 foot shot you have to tilt up, and a 150 foot shot you have to tilt down...

So you really need to shoot "flat" so you have the least amount of arch possible in your shots. The Apex or flatline will help with this.

I make a single + sign on my cg at the top all the way across the entire video in the center of the screen. Then adjust the ZoomCam picture frame to line up with that center point... You will have to zoom in on the footage to be able to move the shot so it is dead center. Each distance will be a different position...

Then cut out the cg where it isn't needed.

As far as your camera blowing out, you might be able to put a filter on the lens to help...
FreeEnterprise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 10:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
Wookie D*ck
 
russc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC

Quote:
I'm not sure if I'm seeing any rolling shutter in my footage, if it is, could you point it out to me?
Here's a great video that really shows what rolling shutter does to our videos. The cam on the left does have image stablization on the specs, but I'm not sure if it kicks in for videos, and it really isn't what's making the huge difference in quality.

Just about every helmet cam is going to be a CMOS rolling shutter. You can really see the stretching and skewing when I move fast in my HD808 videos, part of that is due to the fact that the sensor and lens are tiny, so it can't grab a frame as quickly as say, a GoPro.

Note the "jelly" effect on the right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N4p6Osvf50

Here's a good explanation from rcgroups:

Quote:
Action and moving/panning subjects when shot in HD at any resolution tend to "smear" when the frame rate is at 30 or lower. At 60fps the shutter captures more detail without the smearing when panning. It's still there when panning at faster rates but nowhere near 30fps. Another huge factor is rolling shutter. 60fps is a tremendous help with eliminating rolling shutter (jello) effects. This is why most folks use 720p 60fps with the Gopro. 1080p 30fps is a bear to smooth out the jello. 60fps is our friend
Now, all things considered...I think the extra resolution of 1080p is worth the slight difference in skewing in paintball footage, especially since we are watching at 30fps online anyways.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
oldschool play is about sportsmanship and respect, oldschool gear is available on Ebay.

Last edited by russc; 06-05-2012 at 10:22 PM.
russc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 10:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
Will work 4 First Strikes
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Seattle, Washington

Russc, you are a walking encyclopedia of data. Thanks for sharingthis bit of knowledge.
jjron99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2012, 09:17 AM   #20 (permalink)
Trails Of Doom
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oxford, Ohio

How did you deal with the vibration and subsequent destabilization of the video signal in your gun cam? I didn't notice any shake at all?

Are you using a light recoil marker? I thought about going this route, but I want to be able to sell mine in the future, so I figured using a stock A-5 would give me the worst case scenario for firing vibration, and if I can get THAT to shoot stable, I'm on to something.

The adjustments are a bear, but I'm learning a ton each time I play.
FreeEnterprise is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  mcarterbrown.com » Paintball » The Dead Zone

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
© MCB Network LLC