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Old 10-15-2012, 11:35 AM   #191 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ironnerd88 View Post
It may be a good idea to start with "What is NOT a pump", and work from there.

I would say, "Any gun which requires only the single pull and release of the trigger to shoot and load a paintball". If a gun does not do this, it's not a semi and is therefore something else. That something else may be a pump.

It may be a good idea to list a few of the questionable pumps and get the forum consensus.
I was thinking about this in response to another thread (the one about mechanical markers) and almost typed "if you are shooting at 15BPS are 2BPS it really does not matter as long as you can continue that ROF and continue to hold your lane while reloading"

I know I have been critical of pumps that are part of a ROF debate and I still maintain that position.

However I think this might be one of the important considerations of pump. Its pretty hard to maintain your lane and rate of fire while reloading even the "unpumpiest" of pumps.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:38 AM   #192 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironnerd88 View Post
is pneumatic assist a pump?
NO. The bolt must me MANUALLY cycled in order to load a ball prior to each shot for the gun to be a pump. If pneumantic-asist is a pump, then Autocockers and Blazers would be pumps.
not what he meant, this is what he's talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II9f3DTf0fg
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:07 PM   #193 (permalink)
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Actually that IS what I was talking about.

That gun does not require an MANUAL CYCLING of the bolt. The pump handle is used to initiate a PNEUMATIC CYCLING of the bolt. It uses a system nearly identical to that used in an Autococker, Blazer, Typhoon, etc... The primary difference being that it requires two hands to operate, since the 3-way (4-way) rod is attached to the pump handle rather than the trigger.

But in this gun, the bolt is not moved by the pump handle, it is moved by an actuator.
It's not a pump. It's not a semi. It's something else - an abomination.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:27 PM   #194 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ironnerd88 View Post
Actually that IS what I was talking about.

That gun does not require an MANUAL CYCLING of the bolt. The pump handle is used to initiate a PNEUMATIC CYCLING of the bolt. It uses a system nearly identical to that used in an Autococker, Blazer, Typhoon, etc... The primary difference being that it requires two hands to operate, since the 3-way (4-way) rod is attached to the pump handle rather than the trigger.

But in this gun, the bolt is not moved by the pump handle, it is moved by an actuator.
It's not a pump. It's not a semi. It's something else - an abomination.
What about a pump-mag? The bolt resets back 99% of the travel (I don't know the exact technical number but you get the point) and the pump stroke only resets the length of the wave spring.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:46 PM   #195 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironnerd88 View Post
It may be a good idea to start with "What is NOT a pump", and work from there.

I would say, "Any gun which requires only the single pull and release of the trigger to shoot and load a paintball". If a gun does not do this, it's not a semi and is therefore something else. That something else may be a pump.
A Pump-Mag, is not a semi, it is, therefore something else.

What do YOU think it is?
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:55 PM   #196 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ironnerd88 View Post
A Pump-Mag, is not a semi, it is, therefore something else.

What do YOU think it is?
I don't know. I really dislike the ROF race in pump markers. However I think in order to avoid this through marker limitations we are going to have to discuss what is "stock class".

I have a hard time making the argument that something that requires a manual pump stroke to operate is not a pump. My gut feeling for "pump only" events is if it requires (under normal operation) two hands to actuate and fire the marker it is a pump.

If you can reload while operating the marker one handed without any (noticeable) change in your ROF (assuming your ROF is not one ball every ten seconds) its not a pump.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:00 PM   #197 (permalink)
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A pump mag still requires full length pump cycling because the pump rod has to sink below the rail for the bolt to move forward. Saying it's a cheater pump because of the short bolt lock length is like saying a Sniper isn't a pump because the hammer is only pushed a half inch at the end of the travel.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:02 PM   #198 (permalink)
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^Yup. A Pump Mag is very much a pump.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:20 PM   #199 (permalink)
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Are pump mags allowed in PSP/NPPL?

Just watched how an pump mag works, if you have to pump it at least .68 inch then IMO it is a true pump.

Also after reading the PSP rule book Pump Mags are in the gray are according to PSP rule book.
They don't have a hammer thus not allow?

9.3.8. A pump marker may only be manually re-cocked between each shot, thus allowing for the
hammer to be reset.
9.3.8.1. This pump action must consist of one complete backward (pull) and return forward (push) cycle of the pump mechanism.
9.3.8.2. Beaver tails must be in place on any ‘Autococker’ based pump markers
9.3.8.3. The trigger may consist of one of two types:
9.3.8.3.1. A standard which requires a pull and release for each pump cycle, or
9.3.8.3.2. An auto-trigger, which consists of a trigger which can be held in the ‘pull’ position while cycling the pump mechanism.
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Last edited by noclue119; 10-15-2012 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:22 PM   #200 (permalink)
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^Yup. A Pump Mag is very much a pump.
I agree.
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