Paintball

[Grendel]

The following question thread is running on PBJUNKIE.COMand I was wondering about MCB membership input.

The BOSS
As technology advances so do marker rates of fire, will there be a line drawn and if so where ? How fast is too fast when is it too many balls per sec ? At our shop all we are asked is how fast will it shoot ? Is that the fastest one they make? Thoughts ?

[HP_Lovecraft]

This issue has been raging ever since pumps replaced bolt actions. And direct feeds replaced side tubes, and semis replaced pumps, and electros replaced mechs.

and so on.

I do think its a problem, but I've been saying it for 20 years, and nothing has happened yet.

nick

[shifty]

I believe it should be 10 bps or less, also less than that at night games.
At my field I have to get special permission from the owner to play with my nasty typhoon, kids always trying to get me pulled.
I have a mechanical and the kids with ego's say it is unfair because of the double barrel...... ironic don't you think?

[Grendel]

I personally think anything over 5-6 bps is excessive and a waste of paint and potential injurious to players but in particular I'd just as soon have play be semi-automatic only. If you can actually pull the trigger, without software aids, as a limit I can accept that. I know there are "guys" who can reach "ungodly" high rates of fire in semi-automatic mode only, but I've never seen someone who can maintain it for as near as long as with some of the SW aids giving them a crutch. If you can do it without SW then I can accept it, one actual trigger pull = one paintball out the barrel.

[Painthappy]

Oh yeah.. the going from 12 gram to constant air controversy!!! LOL.

Here's WHY it is a problem. It has nothing really to do with safety in the end. In reality, the fields compensate, make rules (3 hit rules, if you hit the person more, then the shooter is out too), things like that.

The REAL reason why people have fought at every change is because of the rental market.

It wasn't fair for all the gun owners to have constant air, and all the rentals to have 12 grams. Not only were 12 grams tough to play with in general... These were new players that were just learning.

To me, that's the point to it all. If you have someone new, just learning to play. And they get a barrage of a full hopper coming at them. They'll just remain hidden, until they're pounced upon by an aggressive player.

Even if they only get hit once, it will be right on top of them, they wouldn't have gotten a shot off, and what fun is that?

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I think fields are solving this inequality now by splitting up the players. Keeping the rentals in one group, and the open class players in another group. They do this at Boston Indoor paintball, and I saw them do this at Adventure Games of NH last Saturday when the rental guys got overrun.

THAT is being smart, and catering to your base. The new player. That is and will forever be the bread and butter of a lot of rec ball fields. Get them to like it... Keep them coming back... Get them to buy that gun off the wall, and then shoot more of your paint.

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Guns now have gotten so fast, the inequality will forever be there now. It doesn't matter if I get a new guy a faster gun then me. I'll have the advantage of experience. Even at Adventure Games of NH... Some of the guys we played with might have been wearing colorful jerseys and pants and had some speedy gun. But in the end, they were too green. To new still. They didn't know how to move, etc. They were overrun by us old guys quickly and easily.


So what needs to be done?

Smart refs to keep the field evenly split. I don't care if he's your team mate. If the two of you need to be split up, then so be it.

Or if you have a large enough field. I enjoy how Boston Indoor does it. Rentals Players Only, then a Gun Owners section, and a third Open Class section that anyone can join up in, but do so at your own risk because that's where the tourney, or wannabe tourney players are in.

So you have your choice.

[greenmtnphantom]

I also feel that you shouldn't be able to use software to increase your ROF but if you and pull the trigger and fire the gun x times in one seconds thats what you should shot.

[Grendel]

Painthappy I agree most of the safety aspect has to be taken up by the Fields and their judges. In many cases the fields and judges already do a good job of policing but there are others that do a horrible job.

I went through the "controversy" between CO2 -> Constant Air -> Semi -> Full Auto -> Electronic -> SW driven and most of the arguments are the same but there is a point with ROF where enough is enough. Since some people can not use good sound judgement there is a point where the sport and industry should step up and do some self regualtion or some one will be dictating to us.

[pillage]

When everyone was equally matched in the equipment department, it was based on skill. I would love to see one trigger pull equals one shot. I know that won't happen as selling lots of paint makes money for the field owners. I agree seperating the groups is a good idea, nobody should have to take a hosing the first time out. Hosing little kids is not funny either.

Maybe some of the more tourney oriented fields could take a page out of the go-cart racers rules for making everyone equal. In cart racing you have to supply your own fuel. To cut down on someone spiking their fuel with additives, everyone dumps their fuel into a large tank and it gets mixed. That way if someone tries to cheat and add something, it benefits everyone. To do this in a paintball tourney type setting, either the field would have to supply all identical markers to all the players or, if they were using non field supplied markers to put all the markers on a table and have each player draw one to be used. That way nobody would be inclined to have cheating modes available, as they might get hosed by their own gun. I bet it would make the popular BPS rates to go down.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Painthappy

I think fields are solving this inequality now by splitting up the players. Keeping the rentals in one group, and the open class players in another group. They do this at Boston Indoor paintball, and I saw them do this at Adventure Games of NH last Saturday when the rental guys got overrun.

THAT is being smart, and catering to your base. The new player. That is and will forever be the bread and butter of a lot of rec ball

That used to be a viable option at our recreational facility, but the problem with that is that virtually every group booking we get these days has 10 -20% gear owners in it, and they want to play with the rest of thier buddies in their group. When you throw a few of these "groups" together for a game, you now have a mixed bag of players. The best we can do is keep things equal by making sue the fire power and skill level on each side is about equal.

Originally Posted by Painthappy

So what needs to be done?

Or if you have a large enough field. I enjoy how Boston Indoor does it. Rentals Players Only, then a Gun Owners section, and a third Open Class section that anyone can join up in, but do so at your own risk because that's where the tourney, or wannabe tourney players are in.

So you have your choice.

Yes, this will work on smaller fields where the groups/teams are small enough.

[Railgun]

I guess a lot of it comes down to the player's mind set. I blame it on the "eternal ammo syndrome" brought on by so many Hollywood movies and so many video games. Kids see Arnie or Willis or some other hero spraying "lead" around like water from a fire hose and they suddenly figure that this is how it's done. And lets give 'em their dues. It's FUN to see that thing in their hands shooting all that stuff. Lots of folks are obviously going to start out like this.

BUt then as they play more and learn that it's not just about firepower they move on and become members here in the Old Curmudgeon's Club at MCB....

Seems like it didn't take me long at all. I'm quickly learning to move more and shoot less. I can't remember the last time I emptied a full hopper in a semi game or a 50 in a pump game. Even when I've been a defender in an Attack and Defend game on the fort where we usually hose the charging team I don't use that much any more. Funny thing is that I'm enjoying it more doing it this way.

I've got a fancy tourney electro that I'll be trying out soon. We'll see hot it goes but I'm pretty sure I'll soon be wearing a big round political pin on my jersey that says "Just Say No to Batteries in Paintball".