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Old 09-08-2012, 10:53 AM   #181 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SNAKESNIPER View Post
Technology has progressed. Why haven't you? If you want to shoot a marker that under-performs when compared with newer technology, then fine. It's your choice. Just stop whining about the choice that YOU MADE to anyone who'll listen to your bleating about "the damn kids shooting lots of paint". It's pathetic. You all sound like old men (and I'm 35).
That's your argument? "Technology has progressed. Why haven't you?" That's absurd reasoning. The use of technology beyond what is needed is common in many things. Just because it's available doesn't necessarily mean we need to use it (not saying that high paint volumes shouldn't be used at all in the right places and circumstances). Should we all be driving 160 mph in our cars because technology allows us to do so? By your reasoning, if we're not, we're old men (and I assume you are implying we're wimps as well).

And being 35 just makes you 35, nothing else. It has no bearing on the discussion.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:07 AM   #182 (permalink)
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I find volume of paint is less of an issue than lack of respect. Screaming at other players, overshooting players, blatant cheating all make the game tedious. Just because your gun CAN shoot 20 balls a second doesn't me you HAVE to shoot that much all the time.

If someone is in the open or otherwise vulnerable, get off the trigger
If you think you hit them, let them check or call a ref.
There is too much of a "I am angry at the world, and I am gonna take it out on the other team" vibe in paintball.

I think the more immature the player, the more they are attracted to firepower. And just so we are clear immature does not always mean young. I know too many 30 somethings that act like A$$hats.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:18 AM   #183 (permalink)
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So again, it's not enough to just say, "I don't enjoy this." At some point, one would hope, you would stop and think, "Wait, why don't I like this?"
I like to be able to move somewhat when playing paintball. I usually move my way up to the very front of the action. I do not enjoy huge volumes of paint indiscriminately being volleyed by those that hang back and "provide cover fire" (or are just too chicken to get into the heat of the action). I don't enjoy being hit by my own team because they are spraying paint at the other team's front line I try my damn-est to get as close to them
as possible and being hit by my own team mates who have come to spray paint indiscriminately.

I'm not sure why I don't like sitting behind bunkers that are being pelted with high ROF non-stop. Yeah, it's not hitting me, but it's still annoying. I guess because it limits movement (which is what it is supposed to do) and is not the kind of paintball I like to play. I like gun fighting, but I don't like the type of gun fighting where one player is continuously pelting a bunker, keeping the other player in and then being held in himself when the other player finally gets the opportunity to pop out.

But again, that doesn't mean that others shouldn't enjoy it, if that's what they like. I'm lucky that the majority of players playing recreationally tend to prefer a type of paintball closer to my liking. I've built my business around that knowledge. I feel sorry for people who live in areas where business owners haven't figured that out and the only commercial recreational paintball available has many players on the field playing the high volume game. Those players are then forced to play renegade ball with like minded individuals.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:30 PM   #184 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Marathon View Post
And just so we are clear immature does not always mean young. I know too many 30 somethings that act like A$$hats.
Very true. I have seen many players who rely on firepower and not skill, both old and young.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:21 PM   #185 (permalink)
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I watched the entire video waiting for the part where the guy did something wrong.


I'm still waiting.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:34 PM   #186 (permalink)
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I watched the entire video waiting for the part where the guy did something wrong.


I'm still waiting.
I'll start by saying that I couldn't post here until now because I don't have internet at my apartment, so I may be repeating a lot of things people have already said.

I have reffed at a field for a while now, where players come in and play like this. It's honestly too much for renters. The sport doesn't grow if new players are terrified of playing. I'm not saying that owning an electro is the problem, but hosing down kids who are new, or young, and not expecting that is just a ****ty way to play.

I kick players out on a regular basis if they play like this. You would be shocked at the number of times I have had to stop games and carry a kid off the field because he got overshot by some moron who has no control over his marker.

I don't like ramping because there is less control over the marker. I can shoot a solid 17 bps on semi, but when I stop pulling the trigger the shots stop.

When you go to the speedball field, you're expecting to get lit up, because it is part of that style of play. When you go to the rec field, you're playing with a huge range of players, and you're there for fun. If some of them can't be respectful to the newer players, they shouldn't be there.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:43 PM   #187 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
I like to be able to move somewhat when playing paintball. I usually move my way up to the very front of the action. I do not enjoy huge volumes of paint indiscriminately being volleyed by those that hang back and "provide cover fire" (or are just too chicken to get into the heat of the action). I don't enjoy being hit by my own team because they are spraying paint at the other team's front line I try my damn-est to get as close to them
as possible and being hit by my own team mates who have come to spray paint indiscriminately.
I like to get up close and personal too. I still manage to do it against people wielding electros. The ability to move is more closely linked to field design than paint volume in my opinion.

There's a loose 3 second movement rule about moving from bunker to bunker which is independent of rate of fire. If you're going to move while people are around, make sure you can get to the next bunker within three seconds. The looseness varies on how far you are from the opponent (velocity of paint), with the bunker design and location dictating the distances.

And I actually have done the calculations based on human reaction time and speed of paint, but to suffice to say the 3 second rule is a decent average guideline. And the calculations do not involve rate of fire of your opponent. He can be firing one million balls per second and it won't matter.

Conversely, I have managed to drag down people on the run with a single shot, simply because they violated the 3 second rule, or they blatantly did it while I was already posted on them.

And that's the other thing. If people are within my red zone, and I post on them, they are not moving. I will fire zero covering shots, and they will not move. So if you don't like not being able to move, you probably aren't going to enjoy me posting on you either.

Getting shot by your own teammates is a nearly completely unrelated topic. The last time I recall being successfully shot by my own teammate, it was at point blank by someone wielding a Gryphon.

So citing lack of movement as a reason to dislike paint volume can practically be proven to be irrational with simple math.

And trust me, I hate field designs which allow players to get hit off break. I think people should be allowed to at least get to their first bunkers without getting shot. So I really can kind of feel for some of what you're saying. But again, that's a field design (and occasionally an overcrowding) issue and not a rate of fire issue.

And I do have videos to back up what I'm saying. All of it. That's why I take them. So I can analyze them. And I don't mean indiscriminately analyzing them like everyone has done with this video, I mean really analyze them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
I'm not sure why I don't like sitting behind bunkers that are being pelted with high ROF non-stop. Yeah, it's not hitting me, but it's still annoying. I guess because it limits movement (which is what it is supposed to do) and is not the kind of paintball I like to play. I like gun fighting, but I don't like the type of gun fighting where one player is continuously pelting a bunker, keeping the other player in and then being held in himself when the other player finally gets the opportunity to pop out.
*Edit* Oops, sorry, misread what you were saying.

Sorry, I just can't help but laugh at the "I like gunfighting, but not THAT kind of gunfighting" in light of everything I already said.

Again, I can kind of feel for you here; I like gunfighting myself, but I don't like *being* the guy throwing a huge volume of paint in that equation. So I can only halfway feel for you. Can't fault the other guy for doing what he deems is necessary to fend me off. The local field owner and I joke about this in game sometimes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
But again, that doesn't mean that others shouldn't enjoy it, if that's what they like. I'm lucky that the majority of players playing recreationally tend to prefer a type of paintball closer to my liking. I've built my business around that knowledge. I feel sorry for people who live in areas where business owners haven't figured that out and the only commercial recreational paintball available has many players on the field playing the high volume game. Those players are then forced to play renegade ball with like minded individuals.
You are free to craft the product that you want to offer to your players. I can question the motives and reasoning, but really, you're free to do what you feel is best, and really, offering an alternative experience to customers is great. I hope your field prospers.
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Last edited by GoatBoy; 09-08-2012 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 09-08-2012, 03:29 PM   #188 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
That's your argument? "Technology has progressed. Why haven't you?" That's absurd reasoning. The use of technology beyond what is needed is common in many things. Just because it's available doesn't necessarily mean we need to use it (not saying that high paint volumes shouldn't be used at all in the right places and circumstances). Should we all be driving 160 mph in our cars because technology allows us to do so?
As I said before, if you choose not to avail yourself of the technology that's available to you, that's perfectly OK. Where I start to get annoyed is when the same people who say they "don't want/need an electro" do nothing but constantly whine about getting shot by electros. Either keep up with the joneses and buy a newer gun, or adjust your game to compensate for your lack of firepower and quit complaining like a bitch. Period.

Quote:
By your reasoning, if we're not, we're old men (and I assume you are implying we're wimps as well).
Not wimps, more like the "get off my lawn you damn kids with your electric guns and padded clothes" type of old man...

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Old 09-08-2012, 03:53 PM   #189 (permalink)
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I think the key concept you are missing snake is that there is a tendency for ropes to connect with multiple hits - more so in some cases than is necessary.

When playing certain venues there is a certain skillset - your thinking fits one skillset and venue. The majority of the people here come from a different venue and skillset preference. Dont get me wrong - several people here play speedball - some with the latest tech - others with whatever suits them. When we play in certain venues we EXPECT to get lit up like xmas trees at times - whatever. It doesnt change the original question - how do we get new blood into the game when so many are discouraged by being overshot.

Some folks make it all about my way or the highway - personally I have played with pumps, mechs, even a karnivor electro - I have carried over 1000 balls on me and used them all in a game - I have gone through a game getting elims without using more than 2 tubes. In my 25 years of playing I have played tournament ball, woodsball, rec, speedball, even big scenarios. I dont mind seeing people lay down suppressive fire when its appropriate - thats not my issue - but turning a blind corner shooting as fast as you can - what happens if around that corner is a noob who then gets lit with at least 5 before your finger gets off the trigger?

You ignore the fact that many of us have seen players leave fields in disgust because of such. In my case I have seen a player escorted from a field in a police car because his attitude was so bad he lit a young player at point blank from ear to ear.

There is no cause for such bullying.

I have stood my ground with a stock marker against many semis doing their damndest to take me out and never complained. My issue is when those with far more experience and firepower intentionally abuse those without.

I hope that makes it more concise and to be honest I grow tired of blind attacks against one form or another. Some play a sport, some a game, some a passion, some a pastime - you have your values and I have mine.

/soapbox off
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:29 PM   #190 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNAKESNIPER View Post
As I said before, if you choose not to avail yourself of the technology that's available to you, that's perfectly OK. Where I start to get annoyed is when the same people who say they "don't want/need an electro" do nothing but constantly whine about getting shot by electros. Either keep up with the joneses and buy a newer gun, or adjust your game to compensate for your lack of firepower and quit complaining like a bitch. Period.
So the answer to the problem of getting overshot is to buy a faster gun so you too can go out and overshoot others? That's just dumb. It's dumb and it's sad. You, apparently, need the fastest gun you can get your hands on and several cases of paint to have any measure of success against newbie walk-ons with rental guns. That's just pathetic.
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