Paintball

[Stitch]

I think realistically its more about up front education and proper seperation of players

Making sure that people who are new or who like limited paint HAVE an option

for example - one thing I thought was pretty cool was seeing a field seperate the open session in the following manner

Beginners - rentals mainly, no batteries allowed in hoppers at all (gravity feed for all)
Intermediate - anyone that wants to use batteries can put it in either the marker or the hopper
Advanced - use what you brought

Refs were actively pulling people out safely (let him out he's gone, hey hold up dead man coming out) paying close attention to safety.

One of the rules I personally despise at a field - marker hits dont count - its there to encourage paint flinging only - but the reason I hate it - blind fire goes up and hits become "questionable" - there should be no reason to question a direct hit anywhere on your gear or your person.

Profitability, Fun factor for those who like to fling paint - I am not against those.

What I am against are

Unsafe play.
Bullying.
Exposing noobs to high volume fire before they are ready. (tough call here because some noobs LOVE it - most that I have met do not however)

part of the problem here is its human nature to only do what you need to do - very few people are motivated enough to keep doing the right thing just because its right.

If enough of us look out for new players, help them, speak up for them, do right by them - it may help tip the iceberg when its needed.

the question is - will enough of us help?

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Stitch

One of the rules I personally despise at a field - marker hits dont count - its there to encourage paint flinging only - but the reason I hate it - blind fire goes up and hits become "questionable" - there should be no reason to question a direct hit anywhere on your gear or your person.

I guess I don't get around enough. I didn't think there were fields that still did this.

[FreeEnterprise]

Originally Posted by MaD

I actually see outlaw fields as more of a detrement to the sport than a benefit. Why? Because unless you know about them and have a specific invite, you can't play. While people might drag out the occasional new player, it's usually not an open invite for large groups of them (even if they can find it). So you end up with smaller / well run but fairly private games. The groups of new players who just searched the phone book or internet for a place to play are going to the public fields and experiencing the players and style of play that probably caused you to quit going there.

IMHO, the ONLY way to improve and change the sport is to show up at those fields and get involved. Confront and help change the behaviors that you dislike.

Getting involved matters, but you aren't going to change the paintball culture of "those" players... We all know what I am talking about.

I realize what you are saying about the "private fields" but, to say they are a detriment to the sport... I don't agree with that at all.


People are people, and sorry, but I have no desire to put myself in a situation where I'm not going to have fun. ESPECIALLY if I am paying good money (and paintball costs at public fields are NOT cheap).

Paintball is expensive, but if you play with your friends at your own field, you can afford to play a TON more than if you go drop $80 in a weekend at a public field... I can play all day at my field for $20. My friends can too, so their cost per play is so much less that we end up playing WAY more than we would if we only could play at public fields. (we play once a month from September through March)

But, regardless of the cost. Why would you want to play with jerks? That makes no sense to me, and my very limited experience playing public fields has shown me that playing where the general public is allowed you WILL be faced with cheaters, wipers, guys that cuss like sailors (no offense to sailors) and guys that shoot hot...

Because in the general public there are a HUGE amount of guys that are like that...

Running a private field, I can control that, so I do. And you know what, the caliber of players at my field is incredible. BECAUSE I don't open it up to the public...

Changing the world is a noble goal, but not practical when you have an entire segment of the sport that focuses on how fast you can empty your hopper. Watch any of the popular speedball videos on youtube, the amount of paint in the air is CRAZY. And people will emulate what they see when they hit the local public woodsball field, which is often just a speedball field with skids instead of blow up bunkers.

That just isn't fun to me. But, playing in woods that aren't paint stained, with my friends, of which I know them ALL by name... THAT is fun. And you know what, when I started playing running events about 6 years ago in my backyard, I knew 8 guys that wanted to try it. Today, I have around 200 on my list of players... I just hope they don't all show up on the same day! As I don't have enough bands for that many players.

Well over 100 of them I personally introduced to the sport, the others were friends of my friends. They all have their own gear now, and they go to public fields when I am not doing my events. ( I only do events in the fall/winter/spring as I am too busy once it gets warm)

But to say what I do is detrimental to the sport is just wrong. I put a TON of time, money and effort into my events, and I do it all for FREE for my players... Just to grow the sport. I typically have at least 3-4 brand new players at EVERY event I run. (we average about 30 players per event) I just sent out my invite for the end of this month, and already I have one of my FREE borrow markers reserved by the girlfriend of one of my regulars.

Because at my field, women enjoy playing with us... Because we treat people the way we would want to be treated, and that isn't something that happens at public fields very often.


I also film my events and share them with people on youtube, and bliptv. I just got a comment on one of my videos from a legally blind guy who said he loves watching my stuff because he feels like HE is playing. (something he couldn't do with his poor eyesight). I never cuss in my videos and I do my best to play with character, and honor. Of course I hope that rubs off on other players, but that doesn't mean I want to put my daughter on a public field and just hope that everyone decides to man up and play with honor and sportsmanship when she plays... It is just unreasonable to expect that.

Course, I have NO fear having her play at my field. And at the end of the day, how does that hurt the sport?

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by FreeEnterprise

But, regardless of the cost. Why would you want to play with jerks? That makes no sense to me, and my very limited experience playing public fields has shown me that playing where the general public is allowed you WILL be faced with cheaters, wipers, guys that cuss like sailors (no offense to sailors) and guys that shoot hot...

Because in the general public there are a HUGE amount of guys that are like that...

Running a private field, I can control that, so I do. And you know what, the caliber of players at my field is incredible. BECAUSE I don't open it up to the public...

Having never played with you at your private field, I can't say one way or another whether I would like it. The way you describe it sounds like you are trying hard to make sure people are having fun. That's great.

Only really gong to comment on this:

Originally Posted by FreeEnterprise

But, regardless of the cost. Why would you want to play with jerks? That makes no sense to me, and my very limited experience playing public fields has shown me that playing where the general public is allowed you WILL be faced with cheaters, wipers, guys that cuss like sailors (no offense to sailors) and guys that shoot hot...

Because in the general public there are a HUGE amount of guys that are like that...

Running a private field, I can control that, so I do. And you know what, the caliber of players at my field is incredible. BECAUSE I don't open it up to the public...

As someone who operates a public field, I too can control this, at least to some degree (I would argue that you can't control every little thing either at your private field). It's just many field owners choose not control enough of it, in my opinion.

I played a couple of years back with a group of guys that play privately for the most part. Although for the most part, I still had fun, there was definitely much more overshooting and cheating going on than at our field, as well as disregard for some common safety rules. I'm just pointing out, just as there are commercial fields where you will find jerks, there are also many private fields where you will find jerks.

I agree with you though that private fields shouldn't get a bad rap just because they are private. There are good ones, and there are not so good ones. But I also agree with MaD that public fields will introduce many more new players to the game than private fields.

[weekendballer]

Just for the record I watched the movie and i have played at Hell Survivors many times. I personally don't have a problem with whomever filmed that. It looks to me like someone was just running around trying to put on a show for their camera. I didn't even see an apposing player in the video until it was halfway over.

As far as people ripping on Hell for allowing that rate of fire i would say if you don't like it play a different game. Along with being one of if not the only field i have been to that openly welcomes full auto play they also offer, pump and pistol only games, and gravity feed only. One of the main reasons that hell has been around for so long is because they do listen to the players and they have gone out of their way to provide for all types of players.

[MaD]

Originally Posted by FreeEnterprise

But, regardless of the cost. Why would you want to play with jerks? That makes no sense to me, and my very limited experience playing public fields has shown me that playing where the general public is allowed you WILL be faced with cheaters, wipers, guys that cuss like sailors (no offense to sailors) and guys that shoot hot...

Because in the general public there are a HUGE amount of guys that are like that...

I guess you kind of illustrate my bigger point. If the good players abandon the public fields and play only the private ones, the general public / new player who doesn't know about (or isn't invited to) the private field is left to play with all the asshats there.

So in your case I guess there's a positive and a negative. The positive is that you provide a fun and stable environment. Seasoned players continue to play and people introduced there probably will as well. The negative is that on your game days, your guys are at your field instead of the public ones. New / walkons will be stuck playing with more of the asshats and undesirable regulars so they'll be less likely to continue playing the game. If the 50 or so people from your field would have been at the public field to "show them the way" there's a moderately better chance they'd have a better time.

I'm not trying to discourage what you're doing. Sounds like a good time and I'd love to be invited to play there. The underlying question is.. how do we support and clean up the public fields so the new players who get introduced there will have a positive experience?

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by MaD

The underlying question is.. how do we support and clean up the public fields so the new players who get introduced there will have a positive experience?

Isn't that the job of the field owner? Would it not be in his best interest to ensure that happens every day at his field? Would it not be in his best interest to control the environment and the asshats? It kind of astounds me that in our industry, players feel the need to do the job the owner of the business should be doing. Are most owners that short sighted, that they do not see the benefits of running their fields properly? It's a little mind boggling.

[MaD]

See, that's what baffles me. This thread was started with a video shot at HSI and everyone starts going on about asshats and how terrible it was and how the sport is falling into an abyss because of it. While paint flinging does happen at big games there, this is not a field filled with asshats that deserves to be walked away from or that the owners have no control over. The owners there support the wants and needs of the good regulars who in turn support the field and the owners and round it goes.

Honestly, I mostly play at HSI and pump events anymore. So... is there actually a bunch of fields filled with asshats or is there just a perception issue? I know there used to be (which is why I quit for a few years) but with the declining revenues, is it still the case?

[Stitch]

I see all of us as enthusiasts to also bear some responsibility as well. It is easy to pass the buck to someone else (and yes the field owner is certainly vested an interest) but even in business while we are not shareholders we are stakeholders in the business of paintball - so it behooves us to look to the future as well.

/salute

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by MaD

See, that's what baffles me. This thread was started with a video shot at HSI and everyone starts going on about asshats and how terrible it was and how the sport is falling into an abyss because of it. While paint flinging does happen at big games there, this is not a field filled with asshats that deserves to be walked away from or that the owners have no control over. The owners there support the wants and needs of the good regulars who in turn support the field and the owners and round it goes.

Honestly, I mostly play at HSI and pump events anymore. So... is there actually a bunch of fields filled with asshats or is there just a perception issue? I know there used to be (which is why I quit for a few years) but with the declining revenues, is it still the case?

The thread was started by Russ with the video. Russ did not know this is HSI (and probably didn't care). I don't recall anyone freaking out on HSI (although someone may have and I didn't pay attention to it).

The thread started with that video (which we later found out was shot at HSI), but the conversation has evolved, as conversations usually do. No one is picking on HSI in particular. We're just talking about paintball in general.