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Old 09-11-2012, 02:49 PM   #261 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
heres the catch tho harb

if marker hits dont count - people use the marker as a shield
sometimes you HAVE to overshoot someone because they wont get out since everything is "breaking on the marker" regardless of the soup now on their goggs
when marker hits dont count I see more inexperienced players and even some experienced ones cutting the lines of blind fire even more because they only expose the part of them that is "invulnerable"

lets look at a few angles - equipment hits count - since when is a marker NOT equipment?

if yer weapon is destroyed you are typically combat less/ineffective until you replace it - especially at range

whats to stop a player from using their hopper as a bananaboat shield and going on forever poking only the marker and a small portion of mask out from cover

more likely to lead with the marker since its "invulnerable" making turns and clearing that much more dangerous and questionable

all it does is it allows people to stay in longer and use more paint - can it lend to fun factor - perhaps so to some degree - but again it makes obvious hits questionable - it does nothing to help teach people not to blindfire - and really it breaks another rule because it makes equipment hits counting - not count.

most folks I know prefer to play accepting marker hits - it makes it simple a hit is a hit is a hit.

other than allowing more use of paint and longer live time due to having one invulnerable shield - there is no purpose served.

just my 2cents tho =P

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Yup, I totally typed the exact opposite of what I wanted. I can only remember a few games where markers/guns did not count. I apologize for that screw up, that is on me. Don't know wtf I was thinking. I would blame lack of coffee, but I'm pretty sure I had some at 6:30. I woke up a few hours early for no reason. again, totally my fault. Sorry
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:56 PM   #262 (permalink)
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I think one of the problems is that we have a problem idenitfying paintball into multiple categories. There are at least two models of playing paintball: a low volume and high volume model. From the way the game is play to even the business model these are two distinct models.

Somehow I don't think "he's shooting too much paint" is going to get you anywhere at a field where the high volume model is being played.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:59 PM   #263 (permalink)
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Paintball has always had a hard time compartmentalizing and separating different elements of the game.

Newbies get mixed in with veterans on their first time out.

Elements of tournament play bleeds into rec play. (Wiping as a "penalty" rather than an evil sin, for one...)

High volume players end up on low volume fields and vice versa.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:08 PM   #264 (permalink)
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Here's an interesting situation related to the "intimidating noobs" tenor of this thread: I play pump mostly, especially when I play with walk-ons and rec players at my local field. I find that for some reason that seems intimidates them almost as much as high ROF might. My marker is a rather spartan and utilitarian looking T2 with a gravity hopper and 45/45. Nothing flashy. The rentals are all Tippman 98s with the same hoppers and similar HPA tanks. But inevitably there arise the subtle remarks and raised eyebrows. You can almost read their thoughts: "That gun looks different...why? Is it better than mine? You have to PUMP it between shots? Why would he want to do that?? Does that make it better? Does such a seemingly wasteful action somehow confer some sort of special benefit that I don't know about or could scarcely imagine??? Is it (shudder) MORE ACCURATE?? Is only having one shot at a time somehow more advantageous, contrary to all common sense?? It must be so, otherwise why would he be playing like that?!?! Oh no, not a pump! I want to be on HIS team! I don't want to play with the guy with the PUMP!!" etc.etc. I sometimes find myself having to talk them back from the proverbial ledge (which I believe is a wonderful opportunity to make a few converts.) But overall, I find it to be an odd situation, even after I explain that their markers shoot 10x faster than mine, and that they are all faster and younger than I am...

Of course, unlike our videographer in this thread, I don't really have the ability to lay on the trigger and send out a stream of potential agony with a T2. But am I guilty of "intimidating noobs" because of my marker and style of play?

All of this to say, that I when I scare kids with my T2 as much as the next guy with his [insert really really cool marker name here], is that not so much a problem as an example of simple ignorance of the particulars of this sport?

Thoughts?
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:18 PM   #265 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mootho View Post
Here's an interesting situation related to the "intimidating noobs" tenor of this thread: I play pump mostly, especially when I play with walk-ons and rec players at my local field. I find that for some reason that seems intimidates them almost as much as high ROF might. My marker is a rather spartan and utilitarian looking T2 with a gravity hopper and 45/45. Nothing flashy. The rentals are all Tippman 98s with the same hoppers and similar HPA tanks. But inevitably there arise the subtle remarks and raised eyebrows. You can almost read their thoughts: "That gun looks different...why? Is it better than mine? You have to PUMP it between shots? Why would he want to do that?? Does that make it better? Does such a seemingly wasteful action somehow confer some sort of special benefit that I don't know about or could scarcely imagine??? Is it (shudder) MORE ACCURATE?? Is only having one shot at a time somehow more advantageous, contrary to all common sense?? It must be so, otherwise why would he be playing like that?!?! Oh no, not a pump! I want to be on HIS team! I don't want to play with the guy with the PUMP!!" etc.etc. I sometimes find myself having to talk them back from the proverbial ledge (which I believe is a wonderful opportunity to make a few converts.) But overall, I find it to be an odd situation, even after I explain that their markers shoot 10x faster than mine, and that they are all faster and younger than I am...

Of course, unlike our videographer in this thread, I don't really have the ability to lay on the trigger and send out a stream of potential agony with a T2. But am I guilty of "intimidating noobs" because of my marker and style of play?

All of this to say, that I when I scare kids with my T2 as much as the next guy with his [insert really really cool marker name here], is that not so much a problem as an example of simple ignorance of the particulars of this sport?

Thoughts?
I really don't think intimidation in the staging area is a big deal. Yes, most new players aren't going to notice a difference at a glance between a fancy pump and a fancy semi. They just see that you have something different than they do, as you pointed out, and assume that you are a "pro". It's on the field where the big difference lies. Once you get on the field and they play against you, even though you will most likely eliminate them more than they will eliminate you, they will be much less intimidated if they don't hear 10 bps hitting their bunker on a continuous basis.

You shooting your pump at the target range will also intimidate them much less than the guy next to you ramping at 12.5 bps.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:05 AM   #266 (permalink)
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I really don't think intimidation in the staging area is a big deal. Yes, most new players aren't going to notice a difference at a glance between a fancy pump and a fancy semi. They just see that you have something different than they do, as you pointed out, and assume that you are a "pro".
This is true, a few years ago shortly after I started playing paintball, there was a man and his son playing pump, I didn't realize until sometime last year that they were playing pump, just that they had little tiny hoppers.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:23 AM   #267 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mootho View Post
...All of this to say, that I when I scare kids with my T2 as much as the next guy with his [insert really really cool marker name here], is that not so much a problem as an example of simple ignorance of the particulars of this sport? Thoughts?
IMO: When a players reaches a certain level of ability (regardless of the marker) and continues playing at public fields he begins to damage a field's business that depends on novices UNLESS that players goes way out of his way to compensate. stock class, pump play, etc helps minimize the effect - but you are right. it does not eliminate it.

Back when I used to ref I would preach to the regulars "gear back - not up" for this very reason. "gearing up" drives off business. "Gearing back" helps.. and fields need their regulars... kind of a catch 22, no?
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:13 AM   #268 (permalink)
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IMO: When a players reaches a certain level of ability (regardless of the marker) and continues playing at public fields he begins to damage a field's business that depends on novices UNLESS that players goes way out of his way to compensate. stock class, pump play, etc helps minimize the effect - but you are right. it does not eliminate it.

Back when I used to ref I would preach to the regulars "gear back - not up" for this very reason. "gearing up" drives off business. "Gearing back" helps.. and fields need their regulars... kind of a catch 22, no?
This is ridiculous. Basically you're saying that by getting better at paintball, experienced players are hurting the field's business. What a crock.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:26 AM   #269 (permalink)
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This is ridiculous. Basically you're saying that by getting better at paintball, experienced players are hurting the field's business. What a crock.
Talk about taking it out of context...



Learn it, live it, love it!

The majority of us have been through the 4 step program for paintballers as described above. If you haven't been around long enough, you probably just won't "get it."

As a sidenote to Mootho's comments above about n00b intimidation by pump, while it provides an excellent opportunity to be the ambassador of limited paint to our walkon friends, I often find myself in the awkward position of telling them exactly how to beat me (I can't shoot fast, I'm older and slower, etc.)!
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:41 AM   #270 (permalink)
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This is ridiculous. Basically you're saying that by getting better at paintball, experienced players are hurting the field's business. What a crock.
lol. yep. thats what I'm saying. not a crock. (over-generallized perhaps).

To illustrate my point just imagine the whining at pball tournaments if teams were allowed to sneak D1 players into D5 tournaments and the effect it would have on tournament participation if it went unchecked. Imagine allowing college football players to continue to play in pop-warner leagues. Maybe let Big Poppy play some little league baseball with 12 yr olds.

Real sports get it.

But recreational paintball mixes novices and intermediate and advanced players all the time. And this far too frequently turns into noob bashing.
And its usually the intermediate players that seem to do the most damage... probably trying to get payback for when they were bashed a bit.

It takes a while to learn control and respect - so to a degree some of ^ this is unavoidable unless the game really teaches control and respect from the start.

IMO: Paintball has a long way to go to build the organizations needed to protect the youth and novices while they have a chance to develop w/o some asshat destroying their first exposure to the game.

footnote: props to the field that segregate their players by experience and refuse to mix groups.

/speech.
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