Paintball

[Tallen702]

Originally Posted by maggot

Let me spell it out a little more clearly, then you might be able to understand.

Everything in the video is fine in its context - tournament paintball. The problem is that when young or impressionable people watch that, they bring those same actions and attitude to the rec-ball field.

I don't buy it. People are going to play in the style that best suits their personality and talents (or lack there of). There were no paintball videos worth watching when I played in college both for my store/field and as the captain of the NCPA team at my school. You've got to come to the realization that our society has placed a big emphasis on being competitive in sports. And despite which way your opinion lies on the matter of whether you personally consider paintball as sport or not, many people see it as such (I always have and still do to this day). So you're always going to have guys, whether they watch videos or not, who are going to "go hard or go home" as it were and are going to sling paint, bunker people with abandon, and play "extra hard" in their own minds. I guarantee you that the college kid in the following video watched plenty of videos like the one in question, but watch what he does when he comes up to bunker someone who is out: Fresh College Paintball Action from the 2012 NCPA Nationals - YouTube

Then check out another great example of restraint here:
http://youtu.be/4F2AfuEb77s#t=02m40s

So if the supposed "conditioning" from watching tournaments and videos is what is making people go all aggro on the field, why aren't those guys effected when they're out there doing the real thing (and again, probably watching the heck out of some DerDer videos themselves)?

Again, as I said in one of my previous posts, Paintball participation dried up because of the piss-poor economy. It's what I also attribute to the growth you've seen in the pump market over the past half-decade.

I can also tell you that participation definitely isn't drying up. You're seeing more different markers these days than you did in the recent past. Heck, a few years back, you could count 12 different manufacturers on ANSGear's Marker page. Now there's 27 (not counting ANSGear themselves). We've seen distinct sub-groups appearing from most brands aimed at the milsim market and even the reverse with Tippmann finally putting out a quality speedball marker. Even DYE is getting into the game with their Milsim marker this year. If there weren't more players to sell more equipment to, then they wouldn't be doing this. Tippmann alone has more than double the markers in their lineup than the ever have in the past at any one time. If anything, I'd say participation is rebounding. And you might actually want to thank the tournament series videos for getting kids interested in the sport. Woodsball videos are pretty boring. I think one of the few guys who has solved the problem of woodsball footage is our own FreeEnterprize with his "zoom cam" but in general, 90% of the woodsball footage on Youtube isn't going to get kids all excited about playing paintball. The videos being called the cause of some imagined plague are actually the ones that are going to attract people to what can be (even in the woods) a fast, energetic, and fun sport.

[Lohman446]

This is not the heavy metal to killer correlation....

When I sit down and watch professional baseball I think the main tenants of the game remain the same playing with my friends. I may play with more friendliness and have more fun but I do not change the game in a wholesale manner.

*IF* I was not familiar with paintball in other forms and watched professional ball and thought that was what paintball was about I would probably never set foot on the field.

This is what happens when we allow the "sport" to represent our game. I've had enough of having the "sport" shoved down my throat as some path to the holy land for television, it is ruining my game.

[1996XJ]

Wouldn't his actions in the village be considered "blind firing"? He obviously isn't watching where he is shooting if he shoots all the paint through the doorway before realizing the building is empty.

[Tallen702]

Originally Posted by Lohman446

This is what happens when we allow the "sport" to represent our game. I've had enough of having the "sport" shoved down my throat as some path to the holy land for television, it is ruining my game.

I'm sure Bob Gurnsey would have said the same thing about the way you play.

Face it, Paintball is nothing like it was in the past. It evolves. People have been in two categories since PMI entered the business. You either accepted that things change and go with the flow, learning and adapting to the new way things are done, or you sit there like Gurnsey and become a footnote in the history of an ever-changing beast.

Regardless of how you feel, high volumes of paint in rec games have been a reality since the late 90's when prices began to drop drastically. When people have the means, they shoot more. I'm not arguing that the guy in OP's video isn't a jackass, because he is. What I'm arguing is that:
A) Participation dried up because of the economy, not some jerk overshooting
B) That videos of jerks overshooting doesn't cause other people to become jerks that overshoot
and
C) Paintball changes whether anyone likes it or not. And until everyone suddenly decides that 12g's and 10 rounders are the only way to go, it'll keep evolving in the direction it has been since we swapped nelspots and splatmasters for PMI's with Constant air and "ammo boxes"

I think it's great that the old flavor has been kept alive not only on MCB and like websites/groups, but in the tournament scene as well. But the majority of equipment-owning players have been shooting high-speed paint-hoses since the Ion hit the market. Ask any milsim or recreational marker owner out there what the first suggested performance upgrades are and they'll tell you that it goes 1) Barrel and 2) e-trigger if it's not already an electronic marker.

And finally, it's not your game. It's everyone's and if you're going to be stodgy about it, go hide in your hole and play stock class with your buddies all day. I'm not going to bother you about it. But don't complain about someone shooting ropes when you go to a mixed-play field.

[Tallen702]

Originally Posted by 1996XJ

Wouldn't his actions in the village be considered "blind firing"? He obviously isn't watching where he is shooting if he shoots all the paint through the doorway before realizing the building is empty.

When I reffed, "Blind Firing" usually meant hiding behind something and spraying indiscriminately with your marker. I.E. the old "hold the marker over the top of the bunker and hose a wide area" trick.

While his method of hosing the doorway leaves a lot to be desired, it's pretty common to put down fire through a door or window to keep the potential threat inside from sticking their heads out as your team-mates advance to clear.

[Tinman]

Not that it matters much but this is not typical behavior on a normal weekend @ Hell Survivors... but the big games do attract troubled players. Especially Tippmann vs world or monster game.

[Lohman446]

Originally Posted by Tallen702

I'm sure Bob Gurnsey would have said the same thing about the way you play.

Face it, Paintball is nothing like it was in the past. It evolves. People have been in two categories since PMI entered the business. You either accepted that things change and go with the flow, learning and adapting to the new way things are done, or you sit there like Gurnsey and become a footnote in the history of an ever-changing beast.

Regardless of how you feel, high volumes of paint in rec games have been a reality since the late 90's when prices began to drop drastically. When people have the means, they shoot more. I'm not arguing that the guy in OP's video isn't a jackass, because he is. What I'm arguing is that:
A) Participation dried up because of the economy, not some jerk overshooting
B) That videos of jerks overshooting doesn't cause other people to become jerks that overshoot
and
C) Paintball changes whether anyone likes it or not. And until everyone suddenly decides that 12g's and 10 rounders are the only way to go, it'll keep evolving in the direction it has been since we swapped nelspots and splatmasters for PMI's with Constant air and "ammo boxes"

I think it's great that the old flavor has been kept alive not only on MCB and like websites/groups, but in the tournament scene as well. But the majority of equipment-owning players have been shooting high-speed paint-hoses since the Ion hit the market. Ask any milsim or recreational marker owner out there what the first suggested performance upgrades are and they'll tell you that it goes 1) Barrel and 2) e-trigger if it's not already an electronic marker.

And finally, it's not your game. It's everyone's and if you're going to be stodgy about it, go hide in your hole and play stock class with your buddies all day. I'm not going to bother you about it. But don't complain about someone shooting ropes when you go to a mixed-play field.

Accuracy by volume was part of the game long before the Ion was around.

The slow down of paintball and subsequent decline began before the economy started to falter. Unless you have some studies conducted that I do not know about I am going to make the call that your certainty of what caused the slow down in paintball is reckless. Neither you, nor I, know exactly what influence the economy or the standard of play had on paintball exactly.

I could care less about someone shooting ropes and when we meet on the middle of the field if I get hit by one of those ropes I don't really care. However when that player plays in such a way that they hit the newer player simply out for a day of fun with that same rope I have every right to complain and will. I'm egocentric enough that I really don't have a problem telling someone when they are being a jerk on the field.

The game I still play is a lot different than what is shown on most tournament fields. The game I love to play is different. Its still a game I find at at least one open play facility (I betcha I could find it at Horizons as well). You will forgive me if I think that "trying to get the sport on TV" or into the Olympics is a disastor if that is what we are going to show and do everything I can to avoid supporting it.

Why I don't like the "sport" aspect of it. Because cheating seems to be acceptable in sports. Its not in friendly games. If it continues towards what some jerks see as a "sport" I will play less and less of it there and play it as the game I remembered.

[SNAKESNIPER]

Originally Posted by Tallen702

And finally, it's not your game. It's everyone's and if you're going to be stodgy about it, go hide in your hole and play stock class with your buddies all day. I'm not going to bother you about it. But don't complain about someone shooting ropes when you go to a mixed-play field.

[b to the a to the k]

Everyone getting self righteous about THIS GAME.

The great part about paintball is that it is diverse enough for you to find the "perfect" fit for you.

Don't like big games? Don't play them.

Don't like speedball? Don't play it.

and so forth....

[Flint]

Originally Posted by b to the a to the k

Everyone getting self righteous about THIS GAME.

The great part about paintball is that it is diverse enough for you to find the "perfect" fit for you.

Don't like big games? Don't play them.

Don't like speedball? Don't play it.

and so forth....

The issue is that this style has been bleeding into those "perfect" fits lately... And by lately im pretty much describing the last 8 or so years..

Ive never liked speedball so i dont play it.
Stuck mostly to the scenario/woodsball scene.
But then speedball started bleeding into it, messing up that "perfect" fit of mine.
Pump play became attractive, but then everyone decided they must run agitated hoppers and autotrigger, and bringing in that same mentality.
Milsim scene is still clean of this, but who knows how long it will last?
I already skip at least one major "mixed play" scenario, because of that.
How long it will be until i will have to quit altogether because a certain strata of players, and their sycophants, giddily employ a tactic, that essentially the same as walking over and punching the opponent in the back of the head?

Why the insistence on not keeping it only on a speedball field?