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Old 11-14-2012, 07:04 PM   #91 (permalink)
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I believe it was either Bob Long or AKA that got to it first (or second, after WGP).
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:26 PM   #93 (permalink)
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So, I had typed up this long drawn out response to points people had raised regarding pricing... Explaining why you get good deals... Why some of us do things for far less than they *should* be pricd at...

The TL;DR version is... Some of us are looking for an excuse to try something cool, have a bit more cash in their pocket and provide a reason service for a reason price.

If you need 100 of whatever, I am not likely the person you wish to speak to... If you need 5 of them... The small shops are your friends.

Just two cents worth of bits and bytes.

Ty
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:30 AM   #94 (permalink)
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An interesting point, that I mentioned on the guild, but thought it would add over here... The Smart Parts Boss pump had cocker threads. Sort of. the breech was longer, and their barrel tip / muzzle monstrosity (weighing in at least about .5 lb) was cocker threaded. That's right, you could thread a cocker and a boss to the same barrel, at the same time. Wish I got a pic of that, it was kinda funny.

Its my guess that they wanted to sell some of their stock, and just took barrels and turned down the ends for their new gun. they weren't ported.. probably because the things ran liquid to get any sort of usable velocity.

Nice pump though, I sort of miss mine.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:11 PM   #95 (permalink)
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This was a great read so far... thanks for all the history Doc!!
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:42 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsMachine View Post
AGD was the only one to ever use it, and they still use it today.

The only time they moved "away" from it was for the limited-edition all-aluminum X-Mag bodies, which, as I recall, were made by a company in the UK and shipped here for assembly at AGD.
Well, you certainly can’t buy a new marker with a twistlock body from them anymore. Dunno if they still make the bodies or are just selling what stock they have left. There’s a funny note at the end of the emag body description in their store. The markers you can actually buy from them are only Cocker threaded (ULE, Tac one).


Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsMachine View Post
At the time, there was no such thing as a standard barrel. Every manufacturer had their own barrel threads- or even no threads, like the SL-68 pumps. Yes, the Sniper (soon to be 'Cocker) barrel existed, but the Sniper was the only one to use it, and there was almost no aftermarket support. The only "custom" barrel you could get at the time was a slightly longer factory barrel with ribs to make it look kind of like a Tommy Gun barrel.

AGD, on the other hand, had a system that let you remove the entire barrel and breech with just one-eighth turn. It was the fastest-to-remove barrel at the time, and arguably still is. It was a major selling point.

You seem to be wanting to accuse AGD for not knowing, some ten years in advance, what the de-facto barrel standard was going to eventually be, and making their guns harder to manufacture and more expensive, in order to accept it.
If there is no defacto standard, the options are to:
  1. Create a new standard. That’s the great thing about standards.
  2. Pick an existing barrel. No precognition necessary, just pick one.
  3. Create a modular system which can adapt to another system.

The irony is that the twistlock could have actually been all three. AGD could have made mag2whatever adapters themselves, so I’m not talking about threading the bodies. Just make the adapters.

So imagine at inception, AGD could say, “You can have a cool single-piece twist-lock barrel. Or, if you want to reuse your barrel from X gun, we have a twistlock adapter for that. It still operates like a twistlock, and you can remove it like a twistlock, but you can reuse a barrel from your old gun.” AGD made the rest of the gun modular, but stopped at this point for some reason.

Another way to look at it is: if there were only, say, 2 guns with removable barrels, and you only picked one, you just created compatibility with possibly half of the available barrels in one stroke. And you made an opportunity to make even more money by selling these adapters. Seems like a win-win. Oh, wait, I forgot, there’s no money to be made in paintball.

Just because I’m harping on AGD doesn’t mean I agree with what the other makers did. I just happen to only care about Automags for the most part.
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:13 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatBoy View Post
So imagine at inception, AGD could say, “You can have a cool single-piece twist-lock barrel. Or, if you want to reuse your barrel from X gun, we have a twistlock adapter for that. It still operates like a twistlock, and you can remove it like a twistlock, but you can reuse a barrel from your old gun.” AGD made the rest of the gun modular, but stopped at this point for some reason.
Maybe because at the time of inception of the Automag, aftermarket barrels were not common. This is all before barrel kits and gun/parts whoring. Why would you offer the ability to attach a barrel from another gun when no one really has any spares? You run the risk of having a huge surplus of unsellable adapters. How many people would have actually bought a brass eagle twistlock adapter?
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:13 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatBoy View Post
So imagine at inception, AGD could say, “You can have a cool single-piece twist-lock barrel. Or, if you want to reuse your barrel from X gun, we have a twistlock adapter for that. It still operates like a twistlock, and you can remove it like a twistlock, but you can reuse a barrel from your old gun.” AGD made the rest of the gun modular, but stopped at this point for some reason.
-Again, you're applying modern concepts and thought processes to a situation over twenty years ago, when the sport itself was hardly eight or nine years old.

Back in 1989, nobody was swapping barrels. The very idea of even having a removable barrel was only a few years old. There was virtually no aftermarket barrel support- what few you could get were typically just different lengths of stock barrels.

Nobody cared about bore sizes, nobody cared about porting, nobody back-bored, nobody made a 2-piece.

Being able to use other manufacturers' barrels was not a selling point- with few exceptions, the only way to even get a barrel from another gun was to buy the whole damn gun. No one had barrel collections- and if they did, it was just two or three different lengths of the same factory barrel.

Quote:
Another way to look at it is: if there were only, say, 2 guns with removable barrels, and you only picked one, you just created compatibility with possibly half of the available barrels in one stroke. And you made an opportunity to make even more money by selling these adapters. Seems like a win-win. Oh, wait, I forgot, there’s no money to be made in paintball.
-Again, when the AutoMag was designed and released, no one was swapping barrels. With very limited exceptions, there were no barrels TO swap.

In 1989, there were only maybe five or six guns that even had removable barrels, and most of those were slip-fit (The NW series, the SL-68, the TM-11, the Bushmaster, etc.) and no one made aftermarket barrels for them.

I have a copy of a 1992/'93 I&I Sports catalog. They were one of the earliest comprehensive mail-order distributors for the sport- I think just about everyone has a copy of the famous 1991 catalog.

Anyway, going through it, here's a complete listing of every barrel shown: Three PGP slip-on extensions, three Sniper barrels (10-1/2", 12-1/2" and 14-1/2") one VM barrel, one Rapide barrel, and one "custom" 68 Special Barrel... made by Bud Orr.

The 'Mag "Crown Point" barrel is sold separately, there's a kit to convert your PGP to take .62 caliber paint, a factory 16" barrel for the 68 Special, and a couple of one-piece aluminum barrel/breech receivers for your Nel-Spot.

No bore sizes are even mentioned, let alone having a selection, none are ported, none are 2-piece, none are stainless or carbon fiber. At best, the "custom" ones say they're "micro honed".

And keep in mind this was over two years since the 'Mag had been released, and probably better than three since it was designed.

Again, why go to the expense of making your new marker take somebody else's barrels, when there essentially weren't any?

Doc.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:44 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsMachine View Post
-
Back in 1989, nobody was swapping barrels. The very idea of even having a removable barrel was only a few years old. There was virtually no aftermarket barrel support- what few you could get were typically just different lengths of stock barrels.
.
Though around 1989-1991, I remember a trend for really long barrels. Everyone had a 20" barrel in the gear bag for "sniping".

I had one for a Rapide that made it look ridiculous.

But back then, "accessorizing" your existing barrel was far more important then changing it. Things like foregrips, muzzles, extensions, silencers, sites, etc. Wrapping in camo tape was popular.

I do remmber around 91-92, you started see shops that advertised custom barrel work. You would send in your factory barrel, and they could machine in muzzle brakes of various sizes. SP originally would port your factory barrel
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