mcarterbrown.com  

The Dead Zone Paintball Related Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-10-2012, 11:35 AM   #21 (permalink)
Not playing nearly enough
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Layton, UT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotozip2 View Post
Would a magnet retained barrel be not be difficult to get the barrel straight on? Threads pull the barrel tight to the gun while magnets would just hold it in place.

So if the magnets would pretty much have to be nearly perfect tolerances just to keep the barrel from wobbling around and effecting accuracy. I would imagine it would have to be so tight that it would be difficult to pull apart just because it is so tight. As the parts wear it would begin to lose accuracy.

I say it would be cheaper and far easier just to keep taking the 5 seconds just to unthread the barrel.
Another potential issue for a magnetic barrel would be getting dirt and grit with iron getting between the two magnets creating gaps and slight misalignment. The attracted grit could also lead to scratching as the air and paint periodically dislodge the particles. It might be less of a problem than I'm thinking, I don't know. Someone should try it out. We might be pleasantly surprised.
esperto96 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 07:14 PM   #22 (permalink)
Seasoned Member
 
Melvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: gillette nj
Send a message via AIM to Melvin

If you wanted to be seriously fancy, you could use an electro magnet with an on/off switch I would imagine...
Melvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 07:24 PM   #23 (permalink)
Active Member
 
Cottontail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012

KEE cut down the threads for autocockers on the Dealer Day edition axes, thats probably indicative of a future decision.

Magnetic barrel just sounds silly.
Cottontail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 12:47 AM   #24 (permalink)
Active Member
 
sniperfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Usually at my desk.

Rare-earth magnets are a great idea. I fly high-performance r/c slope soaring sailplanes, and I've seen magnets used to hold wings in on a joiner on 120" slope racers.

You might need a magnet 1/2"- 5/8" in diameter to retain the barrel. Hey, now that you mention it it would be a cool way to retain the bolt on a cocker without a quick-pin.
sniperfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 07:57 AM   #25 (permalink)
DSA
One in the Pipe!
 
DSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lubbock TX
Send a message via Skype™ to DSA

Excellent posts Doc, thank you. Tell me can you shed any light on why the AutoMag design didn't become more popular? IMHO dropping into the bore seems like a winning concept. I remember back in the day I loved the Line SI retainer design and still do for pump play. The only problem was blowbacks were rough creatures and the mechanical movement caused the retaining screws to loosen after a few shots.
__________________


My Feedback Redux Knowledge Base My Email Line SI Knowledge Base
Quote:
Originally Posted by russc View Post

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to shoot nothing.
DSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 08:22 AM   #26 (permalink)
Post Whore
 
HP_Lovecraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Maine

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSA View Post
The only problem was blowbacks were rough creatures and the mechanical movement caused the retaining screws to loosen after a few shots.
lol. I can remember countless times I'd look down and say "where the feck is my barrel?!?!?!?"
__________________
www.montneel.com

"the evidence strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam (Smart Parts) could have invented the electronic paintgun" -Garr M. King, U.S. Judge
HP_Lovecraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 02:47 PM   #27 (permalink)
MCB Member
 
Jackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSA View Post
Excellent posts Doc, thank you. Tell me can you shed any light on why the AutoMag design didn't become more popular? IMHO dropping into the bore seems like a winning concept. I remember back in the day I loved the Line SI retainer design and still do for pump play. The only problem was blowbacks were rough creatures and the mechanical movement caused the retaining screws to loosen after a few shots.
It was mentioned earlier, but with a barrel system like the Automag, the detent becomes a part of the barrel. That reduces your detent options. Screw-in springloaded ball bearing detents are pretty much out.

Also eye systems would have to be part of the barrel or penetrate the barrel somehow.

Another issue I've had with twist locks is the steel twist lock assembly pin wears and deforms the softer aluminum barrels after a while, leading to wobbly alignment. Threads tighten the barrel into place, for a nice tight fit without wobble.
Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 03:04 PM   #28 (permalink)
Mad Science of Paintball
 
DocsMachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSA View Post
Tell me can you shed any light on why the AutoMag design didn't become more popular? IMHO dropping into the bore seems like a winning concept. I remember back in the day I loved the Line SI retainer design and still do for pump play.
-Well, I don't know for sure, but I can give it some more educated speculation.

There's probably two main reasons the 'Mag twist-lock didn't take off; One, it was harder to machine. Keep in mind a lot of early "manufacturers" were basically garage shops, or at least, small businesses with limited equipment. A normal threaded barrel could be made almost entirely on just a lathe- even a manual one. A basic, simple NC lathe with the old paper tape controller could make one, and a proper CNC could crank 'em out all day long.

On the other hand, the 'Mag barrel required both a lathe and a mill- worse, if it was a computerized production mill, it had to have a fourth axis- the barrel had to be rotated as the "twist lock" slot was being milled.

Yes, such equipment was common even back in the early 90s, but nowhere near as common as manual and older NC lathes. Basically, anyone with just an old 9" SouthBend could turn and thread a 'Cocker barrel, but you had to have a lathe, mill and indexer to make one for a 'Mag.

Second, it was a size issue. The 'Mag barrel is 1" OD, and the body of a 'Cocker was 1" bar stock. The upper tube of a Illustrator was 1", as was the upper tube of a Spyder, etc. In order to have room for the twist-lock, you'd have to upsize the body to take it. Yes, it's be easy to do so today, with a lot of spool-valve markers starting out with 1-1/2" round bar or even larger, but think of how bulky it'd have to be to have a twist-lock on an Illustrator, or more recently, an Invert Mini.

And yes, such seemingly little things make all the difference.

Doc.
__________________
Fresh from the oven Autococker ball detents in stock now!
Doc's Machine. Fixing, fiddling and transmogrifying markers since 1998.
The Whiteboard. Vaguely paintball-related absurdity every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
DocsMachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 03:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
Mad Science of Paintball
 
DocsMachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
It was mentioned earlier, but with a barrel system like the Automag, the detent becomes a part of the barrel. That reduces your detent options. [snip] Also eye systems would have to be part of the barrel or penetrate the barrel somehow. [snip] Another issue I've had with twist locks is the steel twist lock assembly pin wears and deforms the softer aluminum barrels after a while, leading to wobbly alignment.
-Any decision for or against the widespread use of the 'Mag twist-lock took place long before the advent of eyes. Detents weren't an issue back then either- as long as the gun had 'em, nobody cared if they were wire, balls, clips, nubbins or fingers. The only time a detent became an issue was if or when it broke.

The wear issue may have had some small influence though, but I suspect it was more the "looseness" you mentioned more than the actual wear. Even a shiny new 'Mag has a small bit of slop in the barrel fit- it kind of has to just to have the clearance for the barrel to slide in without jamming.

That probably wasn't as important as the cost/manufacturing issues I mentioned above, but probably was considered.

Doc.
__________________
Fresh from the oven Autococker ball detents in stock now!
Doc's Machine. Fixing, fiddling and transmogrifying markers since 1998.
The Whiteboard. Vaguely paintball-related absurdity every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
DocsMachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 08:26 PM   #30 (permalink)
Post Whore
 
HP_Lovecraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Maine

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsMachine View Post
Second, it was a size issue. The 'Mag barrel is 1" OD, and the body of a 'Cocker was 1" bar stock. etc

Doc.
On a related note, wasnt this also the reason that SP switched to 2pc barrels?

The story I've always heard was that SP discovered it was cheaper to use 3/4" tube stock to make the barrels, then use 1" bar stock to make the "backs"

Then.... market this as being better then 1pc. Because of magic fairies or whatever.
__________________
www.montneel.com

"the evidence strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam (Smart Parts) could have invented the electronic paintgun" -Garr M. King, U.S. Judge
HP_Lovecraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  mcarterbrown.com » Paintball » The Dead Zone

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
© MCB Network LLC