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Old 11-13-2012, 10:04 AM   #41 (permalink)
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WOW! This is some fascinating stuff...

On the magnetic barrel retention system - My first thought was "Impossible! Stupid Idea! Probably the result of some feverish delusion brought about by a combination of caffeine, High Fructose Corn Syrup, and deviant $3Xu@1 behavior!"

Then I remembered my old Rebline pump.



The barrel on this thing is actually "nice". I can remove it faster than the barrel on my ICD guns, and much faster than my 'Cocker. A modern installation would be a little different since the feed port on this gun is part of the barrel (not very common these days).

Okay - See the two brass nuts in front of the trigger? Yeah - those. Just a little behind the feed neck on the bottom of the barrel. See them now? Good. One holds the trigger frame to the "receiver", the other holds the barrel in place. A pair of Rare Earth magnets - one in the bit under the barrel, the other in the trigger frame - would probably hold a barrel on (not on a pump though). To remove the barrel - twist to separate the magnets, then pull. A pair of O-rings on the breech-end of the barrel for some insurance and yer good to go. Some grit may get on the magnets, but they are out in the open and easy to clean.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:51 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I know this has gone off topic but did anyone really like the bayonet style? I understand the idea of dropping the ball straight into the barrel but to me they always seemed to get stuck and when they were not stuck you forgot to turn off the power feed plug and inserted the barrel with a ball in the breech - which necessitated removing it and starting the cleaning process over again. I like mags and the twist lock barrel was one of the things I disliked the most.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:43 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Magnets to hold a barrel in: Terrible idea.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:47 PM   #44 (permalink)
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What about a breech drop twist-lock? You could have the twist lock channel located near the end of the barrel as to allow whatever detents or eyes you want. It should also make machining easier (this is coming from someone with no machining experience) as you don't have to drill the hole for the ball feed.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:52 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Magnets to hold a barrel in: Terrible idea.
And?
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:29 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DocsMachine View Post
Then Smart Parts hit the scene. Their first product was the in/famous "rifled" barrel- early on, they basically bought supplies of stock barrels from the various manufacturers, drilled a series of spiral holes in the front half of it, and turned around and resold them at twice or three times the cost of new.


(As an aside, rumor has it the spiral drilling was actually developed by one of the early All-American team members, not one of the Gardners. The guy did it in an effort to try and make a "self squeeging" barrel- the holes gave the paint somewhere to go as the next ball fired supposedly squeej'ed the tube clean. Didn't work that way, of course, but as we all know, SP never let a little thing like functionality get in the way of a good marketing campaign. )


Enter Bob Long. He'd been a 'Cocker shooter for many years by this point, and so when he brought out the Intimidator (around '98 or so, as I recall) he threaded it for 'Cocker barrels, and that became a sales point. Already have a 'Cocker? Step up to a modern electronic marker and use some of the barrels you already have!

The Intimidator led to the Defiant (a 'Cocker-threaded version of the Bushmaster 2000), then the Tribal hit the market, then the Excalibur and Viking, the X-Mag, etc. and so on. Electros were the hot property, and a fair percentage of them were coming out of the box ready to take already-popular 'Cocker-thread barrels.
I remember buying my first "real" paintball marker, a VM68 Magnum. And yes, Smart Parts was one of the few aftermarket barrels back in the day. That is also how DYE came about, as SP was east coast, and Dave decided to do what they were doing, on the west coast. Remember, this is pre internet, beyond what geeks were using to email one another with. So there were magazine ads, and some people were all about the want it now, instead of calling up a company over in Pennsylvania, ordering, and waiting for it to go through the post office or UPS, to get to them. So west coast players had Dave now making his barrels (At first, didn't he make them out of Aaron Carters shop?) on the west coast.

(On a slight side note, I had heard, but didn't really experience the whole west coast Cocker vs. east coast Mag thing. So I could see where DYE would be more popular on the west coast, and SP more popular on the east coast.)

And if I remember correctly, SP used to always say that one of their employees, who went by Easy E or something of the like with an E at the end, was their barrel guy. How he was always working hard with honing the barrels to perfection and such. Maybe Easy was the one to actually come up with the porting, but since he worked for SP, it was a corporate thing, where employees who come up with an idea, it is owned by the corporation, not the employee. Another part to this, look at Splat Attack and the Revenge In-Line Design. Rick owned Splat Attack, and got the patent for it, but Rick didn't come up with it, it was Doug and another guy, who's name escape's me at the moment, who actually invented that.

As to Bob, he started with Cockers (Old teammate had one that he bought from Bob when Bob visited Japan, and my teammate was stationed there), and then went to the Spyder (Millenium), followed by the Defiant, then the Intimidators. Timmies were brought out in either 99 or 2000, I think that it was 2000.

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Originally Posted by HP_Lovecraft View Post
Curious how that worked out. They were already selling the BL Defiant, which was made by ICD, and basically a rebadged Bushmaster.

Who knows if BL simply ripped off the existing Defiant design, and shoved it into the Millenium bodies? Truth is, that kind of thing is pretty common in paintball.

A good example is the Palmer blazer. It had a very long development of 4 years. The reason was that Palmer was having Sterling UK do all the research, development, prototyping, testing, and eventual building. In exchange, Palmer was going to help Sterling UK develop an autococking kit for the stelring that that could sell as an upgrade kit.

Sterling UK dragged there feet very, very slowely. After years, and years, Palmer called them out, and the deal fell apart. He felt that he was getting screwed over. He demanded all the extrusions, and other parts back to have someone else do the work.

Truth was Sterling UK was using the blazer prototype design to make the Soveriegn. (The Sov was originally a completely different gun, but it never worked).
It's possible that Bob did that with the Defiant, but I think that he actually kept the Defiant bodies more inline with the Bushmaster. Not sure what the difference is in the body dimensions, but it is probably relative overall.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:36 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ironnerd88 View Post
And?
Nah, I wasn't arguing it or anything, just stating my opinion of the idea based on years of product design, engineering and manufacturing experience. I don't think there is any merit to a magnetically retained barrel design.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:37 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ApoC_101 View Post
Nah, I wasn't arguing it or anything, just stating my opinion of the idea based on years of product design, engineering and manufacturing experience. I don't think there is any merit to a magnetically retained barrel design.
But it uses MAGNETS
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"It is not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters" Coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant.

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Old 11-13-2012, 02:52 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by idkfa View Post
What about a breech drop twist-lock? .
The Daystate Patriot had a barrel like this, and I think it was a great setup. It uses a dual ball detent setup, and you can quickly remove and squeegee when needed.

Its probobly the perfect system.

Old tippmanns also had a system with potential. They were slip fit, but you needed a tool to tighten them. But back then you could upgrade the system to a latch (like used on modern direct-feed adapters), so you could easily pop off the barrel in a second to squeegee. Though, early tippmans had a side port, so you could squeegee with the barrel still on. (provided you still had that tippmann wire squeegee.... which was usually lost within the first minute of playing).

I would have liked a system similar to the MegaZ, but instead of a spring loaded pin, you had a spring-loaded ramp, so you didn't need to hold the pin to slide the barrel in. Instead, you slid it in, and it locked automatically, elliminating the chance that you forgot to lock it.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:05 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
But it uses MAGNETS
Magnets? how do they work?!
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