mcarterbrown.com

mcarterbrown.com (http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/)
-   The Dead Zone (http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/dead-zone/)
-   -   What's the point of finer barrel threads? (http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/dead-zone/218102-whats-point-finer-barrel-threads.html)

aresfiend 11-08-2012 06:38 PM

What's the point of finer barrel threads?
 
So, with my last two guns and the e-cocker I used before being my only cocker threaded guns I've owned, what's the point of having finer threads as opposed to something like SP threads or 98 threads?

Is there something that I missed from the old days of paintball or did the more exhaustive threading somehow manage to just become standard as opposed to the faster equivalents?

Ramous 11-08-2012 06:41 PM

I just think the Autococker platform won in the market. It only makes sense there will be more Autococker barrels and threads out there.

As for it becoming a sort of industry standard... I just think thats for the ease of the consumer.

martix_agent 11-08-2012 06:50 PM

Finer threads can be tightened better than coarse threads

I wish autococker threads weren't the industry standard, because they're a pain to screw on and off, but I appreciate that companies are looking out for the customer by standardizing threads.

Lohman446 11-08-2012 08:12 PM

Theoretically finer threads give more surface contact area and will hold better. Realistically I expect the reason is that autococker threads are not an odd thread - they are a standard thread (I don't know the number and size but they are a standard). Tippman and SP have proprietary threads that are not a standard machine thread size and as such may have patent issues. AGD's bayonet style barrel did not allow for modern detents.

DocsMachine 11-08-2012 09:02 PM

It's a case of corporate inertia.

Basically, years and years ago, Bud Orr made an aluminum body to take the guts from a PGP. This was so he could fit the marker with a vertical ASA, give it a removable barrel, and set it up with direct feed. Voila`! The Sniper was born.

It proved to be very popular in part because it had a removable barrel- few markers of the day did. It's rumored that Bud went with the barrel thread he did, because that's what at least one other airsmith had been using for his 007 barrel extension installs, but that's just a rumor.

In my opinion, Bud probably just found whatever off-the-shelf tap was available, that had a major diameter comfortably under 1", and a minor diameter comfortably larger than .695". That turned out to be the now-common 15/16"-20.

It's a nonstandard, but not unique or obscure size. A coarser thread like a more common 7/8"-14 would have had a minor diameter (the bottom of the thread grooves) too close to, or actually smaller than, the bore.

Anyway, that's what he used, and the Sniper took off as a very popular and prolific marker. A few years later, of course, the Sniper got converted to the AutoCocker, which had it's teething issues early on, but by virtue of it being one of only three or four semiautos in total that were even available around that time, and due to the small but growing aftermarket support already surrounding the Sniper, it, too, took off.

The AutoCocker, of course, needed modification right out of the box for those first few years, and because of it, it became the sport's Harley-Davidson, able to be endlessly customized and modified. The slab-sided body begged to be milled, and being aluminum, it could be color-anodized, unlike the then-direct-competitor AutoMag.

So a big cottage industry sprang up around the 'Cocker. Anyone with a drill press and a bit of skill was cranking out bolts and stocks, and everyone else was scouring army surplus bins for quick-pull pins and air fittings.

One of the things that took a little while to catch up, though, was barrels. Not everyone had the capacity to make a barrel, so for the first few years you were stuck with the stock tube (which you flex-honed for "better accuracy) or a longer version of the same thing. The barrel might have been removable, but there wasn't much out there to replace it with.

Then Smart Parts hit the scene. Their first product was the in/famous "rifled" barrel- early on, they basically bought supplies of stock barrels from the various manufacturers, drilled a series of spiral holes in the front half of it, and turned around and resold them at twice or three times the cost of new.

Again, thanks to the fact that literally nothing else was available, and to SP's now-famous shameless "tell 'em anything, they'll buy it!" marketing, sales of the "rifled" barrels took off like a rocket.

(As an aside, rumor has it the spiral drilling was actually developed by one of the early All-American team members, not one of the Gardners. The guy did it in an effort to try and make a "self squeeging" barrel- the holes gave the paint somewhere to go as the next ball fired supposedly squeej'ed the tube clean. Didn't work that way, of course, but as we all know, SP never let a little thing like functionality get in the way of a good marketing campaign. :D )

Anyway, those SP barrels launched the aftermarket barrel concept. Find some tubing about the right size, drill some vents in it, thread it for the most popular guns at the time ('Cocker, 'Mag, VM... that was pretty much it) and sell 'em for $80 a pop.

As barrel making proved to be lucrative, of course the makers branched out into the other markers- Illustrator, Pro-Am, etc.- but all the while, the 'Cocker was outselling them all by significant percentages.

So by about '94 or '95, there were half a dozen barrel makers, each making anywhere from one to five different kinds of barrels for the 'Cocker. It started getting to the point where, if you were about to develop and release a new gun, rather than coming up with your own new, unique thread, why not take advantage of the piles of existing barrels?

Enter Bob Long. He'd been a 'Cocker shooter for many years by this point, and so when he brought out the Intimidator (around '98 or so, as I recall) he threaded it for 'Cocker barrels, and that became a sales point. Already have a 'Cocker? Step up to a modern electronic marker and use some of the barrels you already have!

The Intimidator led to the Defiant (a 'Cocker-threaded version of the Bushmaster 2000), then the Tribal hit the market, then the Excalibur and Viking, the X-Mag, etc. and so on. Electros were the hot property, and a fair percentage of them were coming out of the box ready to take already-popular 'Cocker-thread barrels.

Which turns it into a self-perpetuating cycle. 'Cocker thread markers are some of the most popular out there, and they were made to take those barrels since there was already a large supply of them. Since most markers take 'em, any barrel maker that wants to stay in business will make them to match.

It is now essentially too late to change. Various manufacturers have tried ( Angel, Shocker, Ion threads...) but at this point, most of the more popular markers out there take 'Cocker barrels, there's a huge stash of them already in players' hands, and any manufacturer faces an uphill battle to try and change it. Their barrel thread may be better, but then the kids won't buy the gun because they can't get aftermarket barrels, or use the collection they already have.

If we had the chance to do it over, sure, something like Impulse/Ion threading might be a better choice- it's faster to unscrew, and being coarser, it's harder to strip- but that'd require a dozen manufacturers to collude to make the change, and a dozen more barrel makers to follow right along. And then tens of millions of players would have to decide that their $500 collection of carefully-selected barrels is junk, and would now not mind buying a handful of shiny new barrels.

So basically, no one person- except, really, Bud himself, and requirements were very different back then- intentionally decided to go with that particular threading. It just worked out that way.

Doc.

RatFink 11-08-2012 09:18 PM

Awesome post Doc, there were a lot of "holes" in the history as I knew it that you just filled in.
One of the other benefits of the fine thread barrel is now the markers are milled so thin, the area supporting the barrel doesn't have to be as bulbous. Just look at the new Bob Long Dragon milling and you will clearly see how thin the body of the marker is.

idkfa 11-08-2012 09:25 PM

Something just popped into my head but there are probably reasons why it wouldn't work. Is it possible to have a magnet retained barrel that can be pulled straight out?

MaD 11-08-2012 09:40 PM

I love reading that Sp patent on the spiral porting. That's a real winner. The freak one is pretty amusing as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RatFink (Post 2528795)
Awesome post Doc, there were a lot of "holes" in the history as I knew it that you just filled in.
One of the other benefits of the fine thread barrel is now the markers are milled so thin, the area supporting the barrel doesn't have to be as bulbous. Just look at the new Bob Long Dragon milling and you will clearly see how thin the body of the marker is.

That's not a huge benefit of the cocker threading as the OD of the threads and back end are pretty huge still.

Ramous 11-08-2012 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idkfa (Post 2528805)
Something just popped into my head but there are probably reasons why it wouldn't work. Is it possible to have a magnet retained barrel that can be pulled straight out?

The issue with that would probably be finding the perfect magnet. To weak you shoot your barrel out, to strong you cant get your barrel out.

*Self_DeFenCe* 11-08-2012 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaD (Post 2528823)
I love reading that Sp patent on the spiral porting. That's a real winner. The freak one is pretty amusing as well.

Link?

Amazing post Doc!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
© MCB Network LLC