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Old 11-19-2012, 05:20 PM   #31 (permalink)
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have you seen the top gear episode where they are in sweden and do the amateur rally racing? the rally league had a value limit, like $5k, end of a race, you could offer $5k to any racer and they HAD to sell their car. that would be a fun rule... use any gun you want, but end of the day it has a price tag on it... keeps guys from usin the high end gear
I had not and I was wondering how you would deal with setting the value on it. That would be a great way to do it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:13 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I had not and I was wondering how you would deal with setting the value on it. That would be a great way to do it.
It was a great rule, everyone had these bondo rattle can beasts and it looked like a blast
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:21 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Some series of races here will involve an option to buy an engine after a feature race. The only problem I see here is; what if the a guy says, at the end of the night, "screw you, I forfeit", and walks with his gun?
And so, behind this forfeiture, there are a couple teams that were eliminated by this forfeiting team; all believing that they might have won if not for that team.

I believe it would work better if the opportunity to acquire an opposing teams' gun(s) was implemented between rounds. Purchases would be hard, since backups would be needed to avoid someone buying a team into a forced forfeiture; so I'm thinking a tradeoff would be a better option.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:39 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Some series of races here will involve an option to buy an engine after a feature race. The only problem I see here is; what if the a guy says, at the end of the night, "screw you, I forfeit", and walks with his gun?
And so, behind this forfeiture, there are a couple teams that were eliminated by this forfeiting team; all believing that they might have won if not for that team.

I believe it would work better if the opportunity to acquire an opposing teams' gun(s) was implemented between rounds. Purchases would be hard, since backups would be needed to avoid someone buying a team into a forced forfeiture; so I'm thinking a tradeoff would be a better option.
I see your point but what is to keep someone from bringing a team full of those $10 markers that were on ANS and using them to force trades. What would make it really interesting would be a random coin flip BEFORE games. Heads you play with the markers you brought out and tails you switch markers with the other team. When I thought this you would switch back at the end of the day but what if you continued into the next round with your "new" equipment and repeated the flip wtih the next team?
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:51 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I am trying to think this through. Tradeback at the end of the day would be ideal, and staff would hold the winning teams' weapons until the end (it isn't as if the loosing team needs the guns anyways). Also, to prevent a pissed off person from destroying his newfound weapon purposely, if the gun you attained isn't functional by the end of the tourney, the trade becomes final.
To avoid handoffs of intentionally bad weapons, noone can swap a weapon more than once. If you get stuck with a poo, you stay with the poo (should keep the macked out DYEs from showing up and raising red flags).

Tradbacks at the end of the tourney should keep the intentional $10 guns out, as there is really nothing to be gained by the action. Having them would simply serve as a self-imposed crutch.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:10 PM   #36 (permalink)
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This is getting complicated. Is it really that outlandish to use a blowback? Tippmann, Spyder, Rebel, ICD -cat, etc? You can get into this style of play for cheaper than stock class.

"Blow back with gravity feed only" <---That's all the equipment rules, in six words. Simple & easy. Add a couple more acceptable guns and you've got hopperball, which is already its own thing.

'Mags and 'Cockers were the next step in the ROF wars, before electros became commonplace. This limits the game to circa '96 budget ball. In fact it was the kind of equipment most of my groups used in the early-mid 2000's, pre-Ion.

I guess there's only enough space for so many different styles before they start to blend. So you've got:

-Stock class
-Modified stock class
-Open class
-Mag-fed only
-Mech-only
-Hopperball/limited paint
-Nine-volt hopper only (Agitated; no force-feed)
-Electro, limited ROF
-Let 'er Rip

Eh, I'm starting to ramble. IMHO, Blowback Only is distinct enough for its own class; most anything else is already covered.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:27 PM   #37 (permalink)
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This is getting complicated. Is it really that outlandish to use a blowback? Tippmann, Spyder, Rebel, ICD -cat, etc? You can get into this style of play for cheaper than stock class.

"Blow back with gravity feed only" <---That's all the equipment rules, in six words. Simple & easy. Add a couple more acceptable guns and you've got hopperball, which is already its own thing.

'Mags and 'Cockers were the next step in the ROF wars, before electros became commonplace. This limits the game to circa '96 budget ball. In fact it was the kind of equipment most of my groups used in the early-mid 2000's, pre-Ion.

I guess there's only enough space for so many different styles before they start to blend. So you've got:

-Stock class
-Modified stock class
-Open class
-Mag-fed only
-Mech-only
-Hopperball/limited paint
-Nine-volt hopper only (Agitated; no force-feed)
-Electro, limited ROF
-Let 'er Rip

Eh, I'm starting to ramble. IMHO, Blowback Only is distinct enough for its own class; most anything else is already covered.
I'll admit it may seem complicated now; but better these things are forseen and ironed out now, than to find a problem arise later while in the middle of a tournament. Why not go over scenarios now? Beings that this is just an idea at the moment, throwing these different ideas out there now could develope into something really worthwhile.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:08 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
My question about #1: Why?
Other than "Why not", Blow-backs are an important part of the history of the sport, just like pumps and stock guns, and they should not simply be discarded or forgotten. Additionally they are very easy to keep running, and are about as simple a machine as semi-auto paintball gun can get.

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#2: I'm with you
Cool! Common ground.

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#3: Ok - but limiting tech too specifically means you have to purchase something specifically for this which defeats the purpose.
No more so than "Stock" or "Open Pump" - and the equipment cost for a BB is less than that of most other guns ($60 for a NEW spyder...). Most players already have an air system, and a non-agitator hopper can be had for less than $10.

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Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
#4: I think there are better rules to accomplish this
Perhaps, but "Blow-Back only, Gravity feed only, no batteries, no agitator hoppers" is pretty short and sweet. Shorter than the description of a stock gun or an open pump gun (a high-end electro is also very easy: max bps 12.5 - anything else is probably cool).

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Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
#5: This is going to be hard to do unless everyone uses "rental" or specific equipment provided by the tournament. While I love the idea it has been met with resistance whenever I mention it as people like their equipment - its half (or more to some of the people here) of the fun of the hobby.
Yes and no. There is not a great deal of difference in performance from one BB to the next, and normally an improvement in one area means giving something up in another area.

Spyder Victor vs Tippmann Gryphon - who has the clear advantage? (please don't debate that here... it's rhetorical)

A "Rental Tourney" would be most excellent - and the fields would have to keep up their rental fleet since their team would play with guns drawn at random from the daily use rental inventory. But yeah... there would be resistance. Looks cool on paper, but tough to sell.


Now, I'm not saying anyone is wrong here. I'm just discussing an idea. Even my own definition of this class has changed since I first posted the idea. Even the name "K.I.S.S. Class" - Keep It Simple, Stupid!
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Last edited by ironnerd88; 11-19-2012 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:00 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I like this idea. Though I always called it, well, bringing the game back to basics. (Basic Class? eh...)

If you boil the gear down to a mask, a blowback, a shake'n'bake, a 9 oz, no pods, and a bag or two of paint a day, the game is affordable to anyone.

And using a blowback is paramount. Allow mags, cocker, blazer, or anything that someone might have dumped some serious money on and you're back to people thinking they're taking this game seriously or something. To me that's the opposite goal. When you got a lowly blowback there's no doubt to anyone, including yourself, that you're just there to have a good time.

It's like bowling. There's a huge difference between renting some stinky shoes, grabbing a beat up alley ball, and bowling 10 frames with your buds and having a few beers, compared to showing up with your own shoes, own ball, sponsored shirt, and bowling in a league game. You lace up those rental shoes and no one cares if you throw a half dozen gutter balls.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:11 PM   #40 (permalink)
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