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Old 11-25-2012, 01:05 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:56 PM   #82 (permalink)
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So what happens when a guy shows up with a pneumatic spyder? Its not too hard to actuate a blowback trigger with a ram the same way you do with a mag(or cocker). I think some of you are underestimating blowback performance.

Take a vm-68, add a long feedstack and pneumatic trigger, and mill down the body. You have a gun that is way fast and does not need to be shaken to feed(self agitating)

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Old 11-25-2012, 02:59 PM   #83 (permalink)
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I'm not sure why anyone would want to limit this to just blowbacks. Is there really an argument that a three man team shooting non-RTed Automags is going to clean house over say seven other teams shooting only Tippmanns (And their clones) and Spyders (And their clones), based strictly on the marker? Or is the idea about more about a person's skill, using something that actually requires skill?

So what if a person on a team wants to shoot a Cocker, while the rest of the team is shooting Spyders? So what if a team wants to shoot Mags? Isn't the idea more about skill of the players and affordability of the equipment? Or am I totally missing the real idea behind this?
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:19 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Mercy Ever View Post
I'm not sure why anyone would want to limit this to just blowbacks.
because it's fun, duh.
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Is there really an argument that a three man team shooting non-RTed Automags is going to clean house over say seven other teams shooting only Tippmanns (And their clones) and Spyders (And their clones), based strictly on the marker?
Why have the argument in the first place? Not like the requirements are expensive.
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Or is the idea about more about a person's skill, using something that actually requires skill?
Not about skill. It's about accessibility. NOT accessibility for us guys who have been playing for a while, but accessibility for the new guy. Got your new ER3 from walmart for Christmas and want to play? Well here's a format where everyone is using something just like you.

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So what if a person on a team wants to shoot a Cocker, while the rest of the team is shooting Spyders? So what if a team wants to shoot Mags?
To bad, so sad, buy a blowback.

If you have too extreme a case of Not a Newb Syndrome where you would just die if anyone saw you handling a lowly blowback, best to stay away. There's other formats for you.

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Isn't the idea more about skill of the players and affordability of the equipment? Or am I totally missing the real idea behind this?
Not about skill, yes about affordability, but like I say, mostly about accessibility. New guys with new guy gear getting to play against people with the same stuff. Really simple.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:48 PM   #85 (permalink)
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I nearly couldn't give away the old fully functioning Spyder classic I had. None of the other players in the area wanted it. I never used it either and finally donated it to a charity yard sale. If I ever wanted a blowback back, I could get one for $20. Pocket change, really.

I don't know if there would be enough interest to keep it alive for more than a novelty event, but if it takes off, that's great. Another flavor of nostalgia and low cost of entry. How can that be harmful to the sport?

I remember reading in one of those paintball magazines back in the days of yore, a tournament where every player paid some modest entry fee and received a new in-original-packaging crappy Brass Eagle gun they had to play with for the duration of the tournament. According to the article, everyone had a blast.

This blow-back league idea sounds like the same kind of stop-taking-it-so-seriously fun that this sport needs.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:50 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fubarius View Post
because it's fun, duh.

Why have the argument in the first place? Not like the requirements are expensive.

Not about skill. It's about accessibility. NOT accessibility for us guys who have been playing for a while, but accessibility for the new guy. Got your new ER3 from walmart for Christmas and want to play? Well here's a format where everyone is using something just like you.


To bad, so sad, buy a blowback.

If you have too extreme a case of Not a Newb Syndrome where you would just die if anyone saw you handling a lowly blowback, best to stay away. There's other formats for you.



Not about skill, yes about affordability, but like I say, mostly about accessibility. New guys with new guy gear getting to play against people with the same stuff. Really simple.
You aren't getting my point. I, and many others, can go to Craigslist and pick on older Mag, older Cocker, or even a Trilogy, for the same price, or less than a Spyder, Tippmanns, or their respective clones. So why limit a person to a blowback when you can easily let people play with a Sniper, AutoMag, some other pump, or Cocker? Forget about complications like how much it cost, or if it is a blowback. Make it simple and affordable, so something like letting a person use any mechanical marker, provided that it does not RT, and limit hoppers. If someone wants to play Stock Class, or Modified Stock Class, let them. Let this be more about skill and affordability instead of about purist of equipment.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:52 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ta2maki View Post
So what happens when a guy shows up with a pneumatic spyder? Its not too hard to actuate a blowback trigger with a ram the same way you do with a mag(or cocker). I think some of you are underestimating blowback performance.

Take a vm-68, add a long feedstack and pneumatic trigger, and mill down the body. You have a gun that is way fast and does not need to be shaken to feed(self agitating)
That guy plays. He spent a LOT of money to have an advantage over a $60 Spyder or $80 Gryphon - but it meets the criteria. I could further restrict the rules of said event, but part of the idea is to have "Simple Rules". There have always been, and shall always be guys who will attempt to buy first place.

As with all machines you have access to affordability, performance, and reliability - you normally get to pick only two of those. The example above probably has Performance and reliability. But it also shows off the actual abilities of a "Piece of Junk Blow-Back" - which may not be all bad.

I have given this matter some additional thought. One of the reasons I originally elected to not permit the Automag was the Pneu-mag. And following that logic A Pneu-VM would not be permitted.

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Originally Posted by No Mercy Ever View Post
I'm not sure why anyone would want to limit this to just blowbacks.
Similar to the reasons given for playing pump or stock. It's fun, and a different kind of play.

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Originally Posted by No Mercy Ever View Post
Is there really an argument that a three man team shooting non-RTed Automags is going to clean house over say seven other teams shooting only Tippmanns (And their clones) and Spyders (And their clones), based strictly on the marker?
Not completely, but in part. I actually played BB along side (and against) Typhoons, autocockers, and mags prior to the common use of agitator hoppers. All three had performance that was clearly superior to that of any blow-back then available. Blow-backs have advanced, true, but so has everything else.

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Originally Posted by No Mercy Ever View Post
Or is the idea about more about a person's skill, using something that actually requires skill?
It is about a common platform, accessibility, and providing a path to more intense tournaments. It is analogous to F-1000 racing where equipment is largely taken out of the equation - the best (or luckiest) driver wins, not the team that spent the most money (as is often the case in Formula 1).

[... Hmmm... Forumla 68?... innnterestinggg.... ]

Skill and talent are certainly part of the formula, but so is access to the equipment by those unable or unwilling to slap down $500 for a tourney pump or $1,000+ for a tourney electro.

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Originally Posted by No Mercy Ever View Post
So what if a person on a team wants to shoot a Cocker, while the rest of the team is shooting Spyders? So what if a team wants to shoot Mags?
The guy with the mag or 'cocker would have to borrow a Blow-back. I would not bring my primary gun to this event and expect to play. Fortunately, most fields rent Blow-Backs, so the 'cocker/mag owner can probably rent a marker for the day.

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Originally Posted by No Mercy Ever View Post
Isn't the idea more about skill of the players and affordability of the equipment? Or am I totally missing the real idea behind this?
I would not say you are missing the point, but perhaps not seeing all of it.
Yes, it is about skill, ability, and talent.
Yes, it is about easy access to equipment (buy/borrow/fix/rent) Less than the cost of a case of paint gets you a new gun, tank, and hopper.
It is also about providing a path to other forms of tournament play. If interested, turn left for pump/stock play, turn right for electro play. A "gateway drug" to awaken the competitor in those who are new to the sport or have shunned tournament play as too expensive and too "hard core".

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Mercy Ever View Post
You aren't getting my point. I, and many others, can go to Craigslist and pick on older Mag, older Cocker, or even a Trilogy, for the same price, or less than a Spyder, Tippmanns, or their respective clones. So why limit a person to a blowback when you can easily let people play with a Sniper, AutoMag, some other pump, or Cocker? Forget about complications like how much it cost, or if it is a blowback. Make it simple and affordable, so something like letting a person use any mechanical marker, provided that it does not RT, and limit hoppers. If someone wants to play Stock Class, or Modified Stock Class, let them. Let this be more about skill and affordability instead of about purist of equipment.
What is to keep a guy from buying a top-end mag/cocker and entering it against guys playing with $60 Spyders? You are talking "Mech-class", which is similar to "Open Class Pump". I'm talking "Blow-Back-Mech Class", which is analogous to "Stock Class". What you are talking about is cool, and I would even play, but Blow-Back Cup is something a little different. It's "Blue-Collar" paintball. It's taking most of the equipment differences out of the equation. It's getting rid of "No fair, those guys were all using Blazers". It is also keeping the price point low enough for "Joe Six-pack". Yep, some dufas will show up with a $3,500, custom built and modded "Pneumo-TAZER X" STBB - and he'll have an advantage, but he may not play for bragging rites and free entry to the hosting field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zepulkinator View Post
Thinking about introducing the idea to my local field owner. However, the limited paint thing is not going to fly. It is a tournament so the point of the tournament is to make money (for the field anyway)...
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Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
Sell a service or experience (playing) not a product (paint).
Ezzakly! The prizes I envision are "Free Field Fees" for so many days and the like. You and a couple of friends show up, have fun, maybe come in third. You get each get a free day pass (including rental - but not paint). So you show up for another day of rec-play and burn though some more paint. Or maybe you pay full price for the day, but bring another friend who has never played before and give him the "Freebie" ticket, and you both burn through some paint.

It may require a bit of cooperation from equipment manufacturers, paintball makers, and field owners. A little blurb on their web pages about "Blow-Back Cup" (why not). Something to get the new guys to show up and play! Like when you fill out the on-line warranty card, had a pop-up. "Hey! Did you know that this gun is approved for the 'Blow-Back Cup'? Click here for more." AND since you already gave them your address on the warranty card, the site can provide a link to fields near the player that are BBC friendly (yeah, yeah -- I'm totally stretching it here, but I prefer to aim way high).

Most fields can handle a tourney like this (I think). Of the six fields in my area, four could do it easily, the other two with a bit of "creativity". The BBC will allow more FIELDS to try the tourney thing as well. A few may find that they like running the tourneys and that their field is actually a much better venue for such activities than they thought.

The players will still use paint, just not as much as the full-blown 12 bps unlimited paint games, but those are not played at every field. Each team would buy at least a case for the first game (then buying more as needed throughout the day) as part of the entrance fee (heh... Once Case minimum).

Wow! That was way long... Must be the beer and turkey talking.
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Last edited by ironnerd88; 11-26-2012 at 06:49 AM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:20 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by No Mercy Ever View Post
You aren't getting my point.
Sure we are. You don't want to use a blowback.

What's the matter, too good to use one? Do you think you're "better" than a blowback?

Why "limit" people to a blowback? Heck, why not? If you think it's a limitation than that's entirely the point. Limit everyone the same.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:21 PM   #89 (permalink)
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You can buy a new spyder sonix for 70 bucks which is all you would really need. Who on mcarterbrown is gonna argue with buying another gun?
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:34 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Ive been playing hopperball for years now and it has a magical way of leveling the playing field equipment wise.

now hopperball + gravity feed only really levels things out... and shoot what you brought.
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