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View Poll Results: Raincover for $85
Hell yes, I would buy one 30 30.61%
I would berak down and buy one at some point 24 24.49%
maybe 24 24.49%
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:45 PM   #121 (permalink)
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ATF has a horrible history

1dB sound reduction on a firearm, no matter how much they have to butcher what they are testing to get it, equals silencer and you are in a world of federal hurt at that point
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:46 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bored383 View Post
ATF has a horrible history

1dB sound reduction on a firearm, no matter how much they have to butcher what they are testing to get it, equals silencer and you are in a world of federal hurt at that point
So every paintball company that makes a ported barrel is liable?
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:52 PM   #123 (permalink)
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no - there is a big difference between a paintball barrel and a "raincover" meant to be bolted/screwed on/etc to a paintball barrel

the raincover/silencer is a separate item that someone could conceivably bolt to a firearm. I can tell you that AA Intimidators fit pretty much perfectly over an A2 birdcage, but were talking about reducing sound not increasing it

don't tempt the ATF, if they get a burr up their butt bad things happen. And it aint limited to guns

Report: ATF Bans French Wine Over Saucy Poem on Label « JONATHAN TURLEY

they have actually raided, as in SWAT style, wineries and breweries that they disapproved of the labels at. the labels
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:56 PM   #124 (permalink)
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So if you made a whole paintball barrel say like the De Lisle carbine with no tip that screws off you'd be ok?
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:31 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Personally, if I were an ATF agent I'd be googling for "rain cover" discussions at least every other week. I believe that the project described herein is and should be legal, but I wouldn't want to be in a position to have to make the case to a jury.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:44 PM   #126 (permalink)
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If I was in fact making a controlled weapon, witch I am not.
-Are you confident enough in that position to call the ATF and actually ask them directly, yes or no? Are you confident enough in that position to put "JCurt's Paintball Silencer" on the side of each one? Would you be confident enough to list them for sale- as Silencers- in an online store? Would you be confident enough to post finished ones for sale on eBay?

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Im not making anything illegal according to the and will be doing everything I can do to make sure they are not.
-The missing word is "law", and yes, actually, you are. The ATF does NOT make any distinctions for airgun silencers unless they are permanently attached to the gun. If it's a loose, separate item, as far as they're concerned it's a silencer.

Again, you- and others- are assuming the ATF will be reasonable and logical and act how you think they're going to act. And not how the ATF has acted, in case after case, for the past thirty years.

The aforementioned Ruby Ridge fiasco basically happened when an ATF informant wheedled the guy, who was living in a shack in the woods and was desperate for money, into cutting a shotgun barrel an eighth-inch shorter than legal. What was it, four people who died in that one?

The ATF is not reasonable. They get to enact their own rules, and get to enforce their own rules. And they have literally thousands of prior cases where they had to modify and hose-clamp somebody's "silencer" to the barrel of a .22 pistol in order to "test" it.

Hell, you're actively ignoring the nearly identical example of BOA. They, too, had no intention whatsoever in making firearm silencers, they were built directly onto paintball-gun-threaded brass barrels, and only advertised to paintball players. They still got raided, charged and fined, and the ATF still confiscated damn near everything that wasn't nailed down.

And again, if you say Crooker somehow changed that, until you can show me where the law has been officially changed, or where the ATF has issued an official ruling about the change, then it has NOT been changed.

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Laws are here to protect us too. Just because they can bust in dosnt mean its right or they will get away with it.
-Except they HAVE gotten away with it. Thousands of times. My aforementioned anecdote about the simple collars that could hold soda bottle or industrial mufflers. The above BOA example which is almost identical to your situation.

The ATF is a Federal office with as much or more power than the FBI, and in most cases, they get to make up their own rules.

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"intent" is the big factor.
-Again, BOA. Zero intent, still got raided, charged, fined and shut down. Why do you keep ignoring that? Just because it's "old"? It happened just 15 years go- show me where the law has officially been changed since then.

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If I want to make firearm suppressors I can do that legally at work.
-Then do this: Talk to the people at work who handle that kind of thing. And I mean the guy that has to fill out the paperwork and send off for the tax stamps. Ask him what he thinks of you making paintball silencers on your own time.

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Old 12-06-2012, 06:44 PM   #127 (permalink)
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The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Straight from the ATF website. You actually have to read it a couple of times. But pay attention to intended.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:59 PM   #128 (permalink)
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For more on how "reasonable" the ATF might be, about about seizing airsoft rifles because they can be modified to accept real AR uppers?

Read the letters directly from the ATF- they had to MODIFY the airsoft lower, including grinding multiple places with a Dremel, and then install actual M-16 parts, including the hammer, hammer spring and pin, buffer and buffer spring, and then hold the upper and lower together with a pin punch because the front pivot wouldn't fit, in order to make it work. [edit] And supposedly, the airsoft lower wouldn't even accept AR magazines.

And no, it didn't work on full auto, it only worked on semi auto.

And, it's actually LEGAL to make an AR lower, and build your own semiauto AR!

But still, the ATF confiscated all the airsoft rifles and destroyed them.

By what reasoning do you think they'll be more lenient on you?

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Old 12-06-2012, 07:03 PM   #129 (permalink)
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But pay attention to intended.
-Again, tell me how the word "intention" saved BOA from a raid?

You're putting far too much weight on what the ATF says, and not nearly enough on what they actually DO.

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Old 12-06-2012, 07:15 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jcurt455 View Post
The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Straight from the ATF website. You actually have to read it a couple of times. But pay attention to intended.
That is from a ruling regarding a silencer welded to a barrel that was welded to a paintball gun. Further down it goes into cutting the silencer from the barrel.

"Because the device will no longer be permanently attached to an unregulated item, and because of its silencer design characteristics, removal will result in the making of a silencer under the NFA and GCA."

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ing-2005-4.pdf
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