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Old 12-03-2012, 10:35 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I would say a way we do to make some game less gear oriented is limiting the paint.. You want to you your speedball marker, fine! do 30bps if you want bud.. you still have 200 round for the game.. have fun
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:33 AM   #52 (permalink)
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I would say a way we do to make some game less gear oriented is limiting the paint.. You want to you your speedball marker, fine! do 30bps if you want bud.. you still have 200 round for the game.. have fun
yep.. hopperball works. And its amazing how fast the paint sprayers eliminate themselves from a game of hopperball. And if you add some spawning rules you can eliminate any of the benefit the sprayer may have temporarily offered. It takes a few games for most of these guys to figure out how to play hopperball effectively - but once they do the space guns usually get put up and voluntarily replaced with a pump.

And many guys take it a step further breaking out the vintage brass pron, stock class stuff, and Dukie pron.

We play a game that starts with every player starting w/ 25 rounds. period... and at this point it really doesnt matter what you shoot... and it is THE most called for game every time we play.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:43 AM   #53 (permalink)
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I think this thread does very good at villifying the type of paintball each individual does not like.

There is a market for tournament style paintball. Its not as big as we thought it was but regardless there is a reason this game is played.

There is a market for pump and pistol games. We know this because they are played fairly routinely.

The thing is these markets are not mutually exclusive. Having one does not mean the other must go away. There is no reason there cannot be 72 different formats of paintball. They may draw from the same pool to some degree but while doing so they increase the size of the pool. There are tournament style players who would not dream of playing at a pump game - just as the opposite is true.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:32 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Think of it less as exclusionary and more as just different classes of competition. The auto racing industry is a good example of this. There are many different formats of racing each designed to let a certain class of car shine in competition. The various classes also arise for certain purposes as well and the rules and restrictions are applied to see those certain outcomes rise to the top. It is not a negative thing, but just a logical product of having such a diverse amount of cars to race. Seems similar to paintball as well. If you want to be a negative sort, keep viewing it as exclusionary or you could come over to the positive side and see various options of play as a fresh wind to keep our sport fun and diverse.

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Old 12-04-2012, 09:10 AM   #55 (permalink)
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The thing is these markets are not mutually exclusive. Having one does not mean the other must go away. There is no reason there cannot be 72 different formats of paintball. They may draw from the same pool to some degree but while doing so they increase the size of the pool. There are tournament style players who would not dream of playing at a pump game - just as the opposite is true.
Althugh that may be true in theory, the fact is the market will not bear 72 different tournament formats, even nationally, never mind locally. For instance, why does every one feel the NPPL and PSP need to merge? Because the market is not big enough to sustain both. Sure in theory you can have a tournament and limit it anyway you like, but in reality if not enough people are interested to sustain it, it will not last.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:28 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Althugh that may be true in theory, the fact is the market will not bear 72 different tournament formats, even nationally, never mind locally. For instance, why does every one feel the NPPL and PSP need to merge? Because the market is not big enough to sustain both. Sure in theory you can have a tournament and limit it anyway you like, but in reality if not enough people are interested to sustain it, it will not last.
But both offered, effectively, the same product. Were there some differences? Sure there were but they were not enough for the leagues to draw from different pools of participants. I am not saying every niche will survive but the existant of those niches is not dangerous to each other. I picked 72 out of thin air. Maybe the number is only 5. Maybe its 3. I don't think its one.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:55 AM   #57 (permalink)
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But both offered, effectively, the same product. Were there some differences? Sure there were but they were not enough for the leagues to draw from different pools of participants. I am not saying every niche will survive but the existant of those niches is not dangerous to each other. I picked 72 out of thin air. Maybe the number is only 5. Maybe its 3. I don't think its one.
OK, I agree with your general philosophy. There has to be enough difference to draw from separate pools of players.

A mechanical league with no real further restrictions is going to overlap in player pools with open class (electros) with similarly few real restrictions. There would be a lot of players that might be willing to play either but very, very few that would be able to afford to play both. That dilutes both and in today's market, would put both at risk.

In a free market like we have, anyone can promote any kind of tournament they want. People are free to participate if they want. But the reality is that in today's market, competitive paintball, due mostly to the cost, has a limited number of potential participants. Although more formats will in theory attract a larger overall pool, each individual format still needs enough to sustain itself. If there are "X" number of players willing to take part if there is only one format, adding another (different enough) format might increase "X" to "1.5X", but "1.5X" divided between the two formats results in ".75X" (if divided equally) which may not be enough to sustain either. That example is probably not that unlike the NPPL and PSP situation, although I think the overall pool is only increased to about "1.1X or 1.2X" by having both leagues (less because as you suggested, there is not enough difference between the two).
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:31 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Your probably right. The more similiar they are the more overlap they are going to have. I remember back in the day when a field wanted a tournament turn-out was bolstered by the other fields in the area sending a team for each division (or more). We travelled a lot but that meant that when there was a tournament at the home field we instantly had at least some participation. I imagine that had they all held their tournaments on the same day turnout would not have been enough to have a good tournament at any of them.
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"It is not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters" Coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant.

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Old 12-04-2012, 01:42 PM   #59 (permalink)
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You tell me. everybody is different.
And back off the Redbull a little.
Do you have an argument or opinion or are are you just upset about your girlfriend (or boyfriend. There's nothing wrong with that) or something?
Geez.
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Seems like a completely natural response to me.

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As to #1; I know there are a variety of reasons to instill limitations, but the largest one is that you want to bring someone to your level. That is not a dig.
Perhaps time reconsider this line of thinking?
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:07 PM   #60 (permalink)
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If we have too many formats, paintball might implode on itself and cease to exist entirely.
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