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Old 12-05-2012, 12:37 PM   #71 (permalink)
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...and it's a decent idea that should be tried and tuned. Maybe it will fail; however, all these Negative Nancy posters jump in with the message, "this is a terrible idea because of x, y, z, so you shouldn't even try it." Pardon the expression, but it's descriptive in this case: there's a lot of butthurt out there over this idea, and it's unnecessary.

Personally, I think it will fail, as most ideas do. It should be tried anyway. Those who don't wish to play will not be rounded up at gunpoint and forced to participate.

Personally, I wish we were closer so that I could enter a team myself.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:46 PM   #72 (permalink)
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I've played my whole 26years of paintball with pistols.
I have never sought out exclusionary games and in fact generally will go out of my way to avoid them. Quite the opposite I've tried to find the best competition and the toughest situations at Hell Survivors in Mi where I play.

In my opinion, there's a reason at HS, one of the biggest fields in the country, that the pump and pistol day folks often say heck with it and join open play if there aren't enough to make it fun without a blink. There's a reason that Bob Long and an 11 year old would go on a run at the Monster Game with a pair of Bob's new pump guns.

As I've said before and will again, what people are really seeking is not a place to use oldschool equipment, it's a place to find oldschool play.
That's why the rules are always such a mess, they really only need to say NO CHEATING, BE SPORTSMANLIKE.

Hell Survivors Referees are actual employees doing a job in which they take great pride.
Rules are enforced. Paintchecks are performed when called for.
People found cheating are ejected at least, banned for good more often.
In big games where Refs will never be enough, there are RIPs to fill the gaps. At any moment the guy you're overshooting alone in the back 40 could pull out a Referee In Play tag and punch your ticket and ban you for life.
I've had bunkermates that wiped, very disappointed as I sent them to the deadbox with a punch on their ticket, 3 and you're out with no refund. Play straight here is the message, or don't play here.
That's why pumps and pistols take the field pretty much anytime more than 5 people play at HS, if you have good refs the advantage given by High ROF markers disappears.
A drive to play 'only with your own kind' is an admission that there are players in your sport that you DO NOT consider your kind. They also give themselves a pass to cheat because YOU are not their kind! And so it gets worse and worse in cycles the longer paintball exists.
It's not laning that people want to avoid, it's noobs with 12 more balls in the air before their first arrives because they don't know what they're doing or if the first 4 will hit. It's shavers, shankers and unsportsmanslike iceholes that people want to say goodbye to.

A perfect example happened years ago with a total stranger at a big game. I popped up on one side of a 5ft corrugated pipe with a pistol, at the same instant as a guy popped up on the other with a Halo on his Angel. With no ref within 100yds we each shot once and walked out together laughing. Had he shot more than he needed to, I'd have punched his ticket. Had I emptied my little ole mag for no reason, he might have been an RIP and punched MY ticket. When you know you don't have to shoot people into submission to get an elimination, it's easy to be sportsmanlike.

My motto for 26 years running is "I want my opponent to have any gear he chooses, that way when I shoot him anyway he can't pretend it's because he handicapped himself somehow.".
I've been able to live that way because when I find somewhere with joke refs, I pack my stuff, leave and don't come back.

Rob
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:37 PM   #73 (permalink)
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As I've said before and will again, what people are really seeking is not a place to use oldschool equipment, it's a place to find oldschool play.
That's why the rules are always such a mess, they really only need to say NO CHEATING, BE SPORTSMANLIKE.
I think one of the reasons our West Coast Pump Weekends evnts have been relatively popular is because the tournamant rules are simple. Basically we define in general terms what gear you can use, set a paintball limit and after that it's don't cheat or be a jerk. I think that's the way most tournaments should be, until you get to the highest level, at which point, those players tend to be more serious and will opt to play the grey areas, so the grey areas need to be defined a little better.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:43 PM   #74 (permalink)
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I think one of the reasons our West Coast Pump Weekends evnts have been relatively popular is because the tournamant rules are simple. Basically we define in general terms what gear you can use, set a paintball limit and after that it's don't cheat or be a jerk. I think that's the way most tournaments should be, until you get to the highest level, at which point, those players tend to be more serious and will opt to play the grey areas, so the grey areas need to be defined a little better.
Agreed. Some of the tournament rules you see (and not the highest level) are so complex that noone actually understands them. I figure a simple "spirit of the game" rule should be used AND ENFORCED
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:52 PM   #75 (permalink)
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use any gun you want just use a gravity fed hopper and play hopper ball.

Best tournament ever!
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:14 PM   #76 (permalink)
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^^^^ That is not untrue.
I cheat a little when I play - I use a agitator hopper on my Desert Fox, but I still normally go hopperball. If I know I will be playing several games in a row, I'll take along a couple of pods.

NOTE: I am looking at the Proto Primo or Tacamo Arc Dual Feed hoppers as replacements for my trusty old 9v VL Revolution.

And yeah, my idea will likely fail - lots of cool ideas end up going nowhere, but I figure "Why not". To be fair, though, this is not "Exclusionary", it's additional (it is above and beyond normal daily play). It's no less exclusionary than basically making it necessary to spend hundreds of dollars on paint in order to have a chance to be competitive.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:36 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ironnerd88 View Post
^^^^ That is not untrue.
I cheat a little when I play - I use a agitator hopper on my Desert Fox, but I still normally go hopperball. If I know I will be playing several games in a row, I'll take along a couple of pods.

NOTE: I am looking at the Proto Primo or Tacamo Arc Dual Feed hoppers as replacements for my trusty old 9v VL Revolution.

And yeah, my idea will likely fail - lots of cool ideas end up going nowhere, but I figure "Why not". To be fair, though, this is not "Exclusionary", it's additional (it is above and beyond normal daily play). It's no less exclusionary than basically making it necessary to spend hundreds of dollars on paint in order to have a chance to be competitive.
You can't play in my Tournament then. I provide the hoppers. You provide the gun. Stuff as much paint as you want into that hopper. Those are the only rules.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:56 PM   #78 (permalink)
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I find high rate of fire, unlimited paint paintball BORING.

I can hold my own using a stock class gun against electros or AT pumps with Rotors. I don't want to.

Last time I did, most of the game I kept my head down, taking an occasional shot that either connected or didn't, followed by ducking and hearing 500 paintballs make a mess on the front of my bunker. Lather, rinse, repeat.

*YAWN*

Game ends (we won), I decide to go home, pick up my fishing gear and go do something I enjoy.

To each their own but I won't be playing any more paintball that isn't "exclusive". It bores the arse off me.

Completely agree. I've played with my pump against speedballers it was still boring. I've never felt at a disadvantage due to Rof fire or lack of. I use the gun I like period. All speedball is is dudes standing around Leaning in or out. Lean out shoot a rope. Lean in watch a rope go by. It's boring. It's 2dimensional too. You can't really flank. There's some snake sneaking g on occasion but other than that it's tactically boring. It's the same thing as why I switched from chess to Warhammer. Chess is too confines and restrictive. Also I like the mix of equipment I find in the woods. One guy might have a pretty low profile mag fed gun making him a challenge to catch his extremities. Another guy might have a pump and a completelyddifferent play style. This forces you to diversify. But than again I feel that many of the scenarios I've played In the past were pretty repetitive too. Not so much lately. Pure and simple speedball is boring. I really don't see the appeal. As far as choice of handicap I use whatever I like. Regardless of the restrictions. Unless the restrictions are below the tech of what I'm using. In which case I'll either accommodate or not play.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:56 PM   #79 (permalink)
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You can't play in my Tournament then. I provide the hoppers. You provide the gun. Stuff as much paint as you want into that hopper. Those are the only rules.
Whahhhhhh!!!!! No fair!!!!


I guess I could be persuaded to use a hand-out hopper if I'm ever up in NJ.

Now I wanna test the 'Fox with a my VL200.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:08 PM   #80 (permalink)
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This is what happens when I play pump against electros in a tournament:

A few games in I realize that having that quick backup shot (especially when you sneak up on someone) is handy. I make due.

A game or two later I realize being able to "cover" my own move is handy as well.

By a few games after that I am using an electro. I have literally purchased markers in the middle of a tournament because I was getting so frustrated with the disadvantage.

Those of you who play pump and suffer no disadvantage must be paintball gods.
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