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Old 02-20-2013, 12:22 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Personally I don't think it needs to be saved.... but it can be expanded. It is natural though that if things don't change or for lack of other words, evolve then they will ultimately die out.

And there is nothing wrong with a discussion around how to change or alter things...some field owner may try some things talked about and it may help boost their business or maybe introduce a new play style that "sweeps" the nation or something like that. We can come here and talk ideas and share concepts...they may not work for us...but they may for someone else in a different market
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:46 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Scenario need to mature, I think right now they are in a stage of "more means better" and we have a mind set of if we can get 900 people there then it must be a great scenario....OK D-Day for example. I have never been there, but we hear it is great, there is thousands of people and it is great fun....it may be but that seems like too many people to have an effective fun time.
I only personally know two people who have made the trek to D-Day. Both said they won't be going back. It was neat to take part and interesting to see, but they had less fun than they have at a local day of paintball. They both said it wasn't worth the money they spent (both had to travel a fair distance).
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:50 PM   #83 (permalink)
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An hour or so north, Liberty is the only field you'll find. The LI fields that take a good 3hrs to get too have been dying. Cousins the best of the group will soon close thanks to the local Govt in LI. Our sport lacks the following to convince Govt people not to close fields. To extend leases and offer licenses to run fields in our national forests (something most skiers/boarders know alot about because most ski mountains are on Govt land in the NE).

And I don't mean huge fields in NYC, I mean indoor. There should be tons of places to play paintball in Brooklyn. It's just perfect for it honestly, tons of cheap empty buildings (warehouses) that could be turned into airball fields with a small staging area/proshop. Tons of kids/college students who would love to play. And a community that would happily root for a pro team from Brooklyn. BK is a very tight nit community, and it would be a major sign of growth if PB fields started popping up there.

I have places to play, but really only 1 solid field in 1.5 hours drive. And for the NYC area, lets be honest thats lame.

San Fran has one of the better PB communities from what I hear. I've never played Cali but have played a bit in Vancouver and find they have an AWESOME paintball community, only wish more like it existed on this side of the border.


Even in burlington Vt, where I have my other apartment and go to college for most of the year, there is only one field. Its a city of 100k College kids in the middle of nowhere, meaning tons of cheap land. The one field is awful, no HPA fills even. The Norwich cadets play religiously and still no one else has tried to open a field or improve the existing facilities (no running water/indoor staging/proshop.)

Once I finish my PsyD and work for a few years, I'm planning on opening a field in Brooklyn for sure. It's always been a dream of mine. I'd find a few interested friends and fund the money. I'd keep seeing patients of course and my friends would run day-to-day operations but id run the business. It would just be nice to have a community to cater too when I open it, so that it doesn't close like most I see.
Sorry paintball in your neck of the woods is on the decline. It is hard to have the will and the resources but no great place to play.

I must point out that part of the problem is linked to business plans like the one you describe in the above post. Your field would be run by the friends of an absentee owner. That is not a recipe for success.

You described a facility in a mall that was on the 4th owner in 5 years. That smacks of a bad business plan. you should go into a brand new business expecting to lose money for the first couple of years.

Most paintball businesses fail because they are operated with people that don't understand business. They simply love paintball and treat the business as a hobby.

"San Fran" has a thriving paintball community because paintball isn't played in "The City". You have to drive to much humbler places to find a field; Livermore, Vacaville, Davis, Fairfield, and American Canyon. Places with great weather, lots of ag land, and enough people in the surrounding communities to keep them alive. These places are all run by gentlemen that understand the business end of running a paintball field.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:38 PM   #84 (permalink)
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I don't see a problem with the sport. Only problem I see is times are tough and teams aren't getting the sponsorships they think they deserve.

Mommy and Daddy aren't kicking out the cash.

I think paintball has progressed more in the last few yrs in milsim and back to the woods.

As far as big games and scenarios. Show up and enjoy them. Don't want to be military regimented, tell them to KI$$ your A$$ and go play your game.

Paintball is about fun, it's not a job. It's not going to die anytime soon.

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Old 02-20-2013, 03:29 PM   #85 (permalink)
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I understand and somewhat agree. And while you may say "it's not a job" for some it is...for field owners it is a job and it is an income. For some of the larger fields that operate 5-6 days a week or more it is a livelihood. One we have seen many fields not survive over the years. As a player you are right it is not a job....but ensuring you are having fun in the job of the owners and operators and to ensure that you can always have fun, they have to ensure that their field is able to grow in terms of business by offering more fun, different fun, or whatever they can to keep afloat.
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:36 AM   #86 (permalink)
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BR

I understand and somewhat agree. And while you may say "it's not a job" for some it is...for field owners it is a job and it is an income. For some of the larger fields that operate 5-6 days a week or more it is a livelihood. One we have seen many fields not survive over the years. As a player you are right it is not a job....but ensuring you are having fun in the job of the owners and operators and to ensure that you can always have fun, they have to ensure that their field is able to grow in terms of business by offering more fun, different fun, or whatever they can to keep afloat.
I ment not a job to the players. Yes alot of fields have closed over the yrs. However many of those fields didn't want to progress beyond speed ball and that's all that was offered.Sad but true.

Then you have the players that will not change and would rather sell their gear then play in the woods "OH BOOHO". Then for some reason "Pump Play" is like the new crack in paintball.

Due to bad economy. I'm sure pump play has hurt alot of fields also. Less paint equals less sales.

We all know paintball is a sink or swim sport. I think the days of shooting 3 cases a day at rec players is far gone

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Old 02-21-2013, 10:03 AM   #87 (permalink)
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I ment not a job to the players. Yes alot of fields have closed over the yrs. However many of those fields didn't want to progress beyond speed ball and that's all that was offered.Sad but true.

Then you have the players that will not change and would rather sell their gear then play in the woods "OH BOOHO". Then for some reason "Pump Play" is like the new crack in paintball.

Due to bad economy. I'm sure pump play has hurt alot of fields also. Less paint equals less sales.

We all know paintball is a sink or swim sport. I think the days of shooting 3 cases a day at rec players is far gone

Later,
Blackrain
The funny part is that to a lot of us older players, pump play in the woods is just all the new kids learning to play the game we never stopped enjoying.

Frankly, this is all pretty normal. The game's not going away, the way people play simply changes with their interests and what they can afford.

Cheap field paint here averages $68 a case. That's about 3.4 cents a ball. Doesn't seem like much, but when you're rocking down 13 bps, that's about 50 cents a second. That adds up quick, and once you're not playing with Mommy and Daddy's money, it gets harder to justify that kind of play if you want to play often. The same cycle goes on, no matter if the 'fast' markers are Egos, Angels, AutoMags, or well-tuned Autocockers like back in the last 90's.

Last edited by Wraith; 02-21-2013 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:30 AM   #88 (permalink)
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WH you are exactly correct. And even when mommy and daddy are paying for it....if you are talking about a "middle class" family the idea of little Johnny dropping $68 per case, $10 field fee, $10 all day air, plus food and misc means $100 for the day of play, not including if they have to rent or buy their own gun....that is a great deal of money.

So mommy and daddy are only going to let Little Johnny do that once a quarter, semi-annually, or only on their birthday. Instead of once or twice a month. People can get training for other sports in schools, colleges, or get lessons. And sometimes the lessons can be less per month than a single day of play. But if PB were viewed as a legitimate sport then mommy and daddy are more apt to support Johnny in his venture. Cause "professional" athletes in sports like this can make a living doing it....whereas right now if Little Johnny says "I wanna be a professional paintball player" his parents shoulders slump as they realize he will never move out of the basement because he can't make enough money in that to afford to live anywhere. So they encourage him to try something different, take up piano lessons, or ping pong.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:50 AM   #89 (permalink)
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WH you are exactly correct. And even when mommy and daddy are paying for it....if you are talking about a "middle class" family the idea of little Johnny dropping $68 per case, $10 field fee, $10 all day air, plus food and misc means $100 for the day of play, not including if they have to rent or buy their own gun....that is a great deal of money.

So mommy and daddy are only going to let Little Johnny do that once a quarter, semi-annually, or only on their birthday. Instead of once or twice a month. People can get training for other sports in schools, colleges, or get lessons. And sometimes the lessons can be less per month than a single day of play. But if PB were viewed as a legitimate sport then mommy and daddy are more apt to support Johnny in his venture. Cause "professional" athletes in sports like this can make a living doing it....whereas right now if Little Johnny says "I wanna be a professional paintball player" his parents shoulders slump as they realize he will never move out of the basement because he can't make enough money in that to afford to live anywhere. So they encourage him to try something different, take up piano lessons, or ping pong.
Well, as far as that goes, look at the sport. When was the last time you saw anyone sponsored by a business outside the industry? Plenty of factory teams and whatnot around, but paintball is pretty terrible as a spectator sport, so it won't draw the kind of eyes and thus the ad revenue required. Without that ad revenue, and people willing to pay to watch paintball, a professional career in the sport is impossible.

Unfortunately, we have yet to see a way to make good television out of the game. Take a look at NASCAR for a great example of how a sport that isn't much to watch live can be made very watchable with good television work.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:51 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Not just good television work...look at the number of people that go to a race! There is like 200,000 people at the Daytona 500 alone. And it became popular before the TV made it so...good TV work only allowed it to explode even more

But you are right in that the only sponsors you see are typically industry related sponsorships. But to tie into the other thread a bit...if the game grew to be recognized as a sport then sponsorships from other venues would also appear. This influx of funds into the industry would allow for growth in many different areas, improved video experience, helping with innovation as far as funding projects and things of that nature.
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