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Old 02-15-2013, 08:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I remember reading somewhere that cleaning the inside of a barrel with rain-x before a game helped prevent the oil buildup caused by paint thus making your shots more accurate (and made cleaning a barrel break go quicker)
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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rain-x is decent for preventing build up of first strike white residue in the tib/lapco FSR barrel

and if you want the ultimate polished barrel...smooth down to a few atoms in step size...then start with a nice old dye polished barrel and send it to a company that specializes in stainless electro-polishing...if you are good on the phone with industrial companies then you will most likely get a barrel done for no more than $20
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Just throwing this out there. I had a wgp stainless back that was noticeable used it shot kinda off. Anyway I decided to take metal polish 100% cotton strips and a rod with said strips attached then inserted into a drill and smothered the polish down the barrel and proceeded to polish the inside of the barrel. Finished with micro fiber strip and it shot a a heck of a lot straighter. And that was a visible change in accuracy by just a quick polish. I could only imagine what a proper high finish polish would do. So really you should be measuring the surface finish the Ra. But should rather be measured in Rp, Rv, and Ry. Then see which does better. This may be over most peoples knowledge if so i ll explain it. does anyone know what I talking bout?
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:04 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Dusty and Alpha,

Good call on the oil residue. Hadn't even crossed my mind, but you're both quite right. Perhaps the other thread on repellent may be of some use? Of course, adding a hydro/oleophobic substance to the bore may well serve to have two things acting at cross purposes.

Or perhaps the finer finish will itself be less amenable to oleic barnacling, so to speak?

Also, Alpha, can you say more about the business of increasing friction by increasing finish? Have an idea where you are headed, but just want to be sure I'm following you correctly.

Goatboy,

For this we would not be using terms like "Dude! It's duder-dude smooth!"

We would have something a bit more specific, and repeatable.

As for toothpaste, can't say anything on that, as it is news to me (a) that all toothpastes use superfine abrasives, and (b) all toothpaste abrasives are of the same material, same mesh/grit/micron rating, etc., and (c) this is comparable to finest jeweler's compound.

Either way, there is stuff that is finer still, and it might be nice to go there, if possible. But to the point on relativity in common usage, it is probably the case that we could do to spend some time here talking about just what constitutes a high or superfinish. Might also help to talk of finishing methods, especially aftermarket, since an anodized bore is not the same as raw aluminum, and won't be refined in the same way. Might also talk of differences in abrasives. Regularly hear guys (not here) talk about using black cutting compound (or worse) and thinking it is just the ticket for a high finish.


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I'm always of the mind that if understanding is the aim then it's best, in broad company, to speak as broadly as possible. Do tell. Those who already know will understand, and those who don't will surely appreciate.
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:43 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Well... At a microscopic level, there's a bell curve for when a surface finish is offering less impediment from poor finish and more impediment from exposing more surface area.

It's only a realistic topic of discussion if we're pursuing the absolute ideal.

I'm a fan of coatings... There's an advantage, in the machined finish requirements (less), in the final finish quality (more), and in the friction that the surface actually offers.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:17 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I can really only speak in completely subjective terms, but I've had plenty of experience with flexhoning barrels (though not nearly as much as AgentSmith).

Subjectively, it appears to make a pretty distinct difference in consistency. My Zeus' bore finish was, by eyeball, as close to perfect as I've seen in a paintball barrel, but after flexhoning I swear I felt my effectiveness with mid-to-long range shots increase, and I was skeptical of the process at first.

I know for a fact it improved my old WGP bull barrel I was using with my I-Fit kit on my DSG, but that was a much rougher finish to start with, and while I couldn't really see the difference, by rubbing my finger over the barrel's inner surface I could discern that it was in fact much smoother after honing than before. Groupings at the chrono range, even with the same paint, were much tighter after that.

So I would certainly be interested to see someone pursue real testing in this area. I'm actually a little surprised that the Punkworks guys seemed unwilling to test it further. Am I expecting completely revolutionary results? No. Even in my case where I perceived a notable improvement, I'm still not one-shotting every person I aim at on the field. The paint will still be the limiting factor but every little bit helps so if inexpensive refinishing such as a flexhone shows quanitifiable improvement I believe that's something the paintball world has a right to know.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:01 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Ok so simple put Ra is the overall finish rating. All surfaces have a high point and a low point. Even mirror finishes have high and low points at a microscopic level. No surface is completely flat. So the Rp is a peak heavy surface and measures the max peak height excluding the presence of any valleys. Basically the paint would ride on mountains peaks microscopically speaking. The Rv is a measurement of the valleys excluding the measurement of peaks. So the paint would ride on plateaus in essence. The Ry is a measurement of the difference of both the peaks and the valleys so is a more true overall measurement of the surface roughness. I ll try and find a link to help with a visual.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:09 AM   #18 (permalink)
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There are devises to measure this and it may be way beyond what's needed but I think it would be cool to see what process produces which type of surface finish, weather Rv or Rp. Then see which surface finish produces the best results. And hears a link to help surface finish measuring
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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So I would certainly be interested to see someone pursue real testing in this area. I'm actually a little surprised that the Punkworks guys seemed unwilling to test it further. Am I expecting completely revolutionary results? No. Even in my case where I perceived a notable improvement, I'm still not one-shotting every person I aim at on the field. The paint will still be the limiting factor but every little bit helps so if inexpensive refinishing such as a flexhone shows quanitifiable improvement I believe that's something the paintball world has a right to know.
Couldn't have said it better. I would love to see data on the subject also. I think that if barrel refinishing makes a large enough difference, its worth it. Then again, how much of a difference does it make?
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Dye says that they're going to make a 'Faultline Broomstick' soon, so wait for that, then you'll never be outshoot, unless the other guy has a full-auto ramping Boo-Ya frame on there Spider and a Dye Broomstick, then your screwed, you mite as well play Airsoft.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Putting all the talk of polishing aside, do you think that paintballs as projectiles would restrict the ability to see a pronounced difference between normal and super finished barrels?

Perhaps if someone would like to peruse testing, and the results do not show a pronounced difference between the homogeneous mix of barrels on the market and those that are super finished, a more consistent projectile could be used?

If we are looking for differences, now matter how minute, I think that a more consistently size projectile would help to bring these differences to the forefront. Paintballs could be measured with calipers and only those that are of optimal and consistent size would be used. Or possibly re-balls instead (assuming they are more consistently sized). Plus I don't believe they would react to changes in temperature as much as paintballs would. Possibly this was the flaw in Punkwork's research?
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Dye says that they're going to make a 'Faultline Broomstick' soon, so wait for that, then you'll never be outshoot, unless the other guy has a full-auto ramping Boo-Ya frame on there Spider and a Dye Broomstick, then your screwed, you mite as well play Airsoft.
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