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Old 03-01-2013, 04:43 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Wow! This thread has really picked up. The direction that it is going in is very interesting.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:03 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I think if you are going to apply a friction factor to the gas flow, you would have to model the gas escaping around the ball, which is no longer very well represented in the diagram except right at the surface.The Reynolds numbers will vary all around the projectile, but a model might work.
This is going to take a lot of testing... since the projectile is not completely consistent, this could cause issues with a model, the flow pattern and the data you would get.

For the sake of testing purposes, a longer barrel would help to establish a more accurate flow pattern, would it not? Then compiling the results and averaging them could help to overcome the issue of varying Reynolds numbers.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:05 PM   #53 (permalink)
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This is going to take a lot of testing... since the projectile is not completely consistent, this could cause issues with a model, the flow pattern and the data you would get.

For the sake of testing purposes, a longer barrel would help to establish a more accurate flow pattern, would it not? Then compiling the results and averaging them could help to overcome the issue of varying Reynolds numbers.
Trouble is that the real flow (pressure behind the ball) isn't constant anyway. A small series of models should tell you what the range is. I wish I had time for open foam.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:32 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I'd love to try this and see if anyone on my team notices a difference. I happen to have two sets of the aluminum freak inserts (.679 +). Someone correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like with a hone you just pass it up and down the barrel a few times using pretty much any hand drill to rotate it. For the sake of consistency between us is there a suggested amount of times to pass the hone through or general speed of the drill that's recommended?
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:27 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Don't know if it's been mentioned, but have any of you brothers here ever try RainX in your barrel?
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THE-SHOOTIST Anyone chubbin' like me for this?
mailmanmike Since Monday! That's more than 4 hours though, so according to those cialis ads I should see my doctor.
tlane77 I think for a non-chemical chubby it's 6 hours before its time to see a doctor. So you should be good for another couple hours.
splattttttt I wasn't goin to google "chubbin" because I assumed it had to do with fat. The lard type, not the fun stuff. But what ever feelings Jeff's experiencing, then they must be of the fun like stuff...
tlane77 He's got a woody for your woods.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:05 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Spider! View Post
Trouble is that the real flow (pressure behind the ball) isn't constant anyway. A small series of models should tell you what the range is. I wish I had time for open foam.
That's also a problem. If only everything was perfectly consistent and logical! Although, since this is not my area of expertise, I'll have to leave the modeling to you guys .
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:23 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xxerexx View Post
I'd love to try this and see if anyone on my team notices a difference. I happen to have two sets of the aluminum freak inserts (.679 +). Someone correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like with a hone you just pass it up and down the barrel a few times using pretty much any hand drill to rotate it. For the sake of consistency between us is there a suggested amount of times to pass the hone through or general speed of the drill that's recommended?
I've always done about ten passes at maximum speed on the drill, but slowly traversing the barrel (like a slow ten-count from end to end). Also, you want to keep the hone soaked in air tool oil as you're honing.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:17 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I won't leave in a cloud of confusion if I can help it CJ.

I disagree spider!.
My contention is first that co2 molecules filling irregularities in the finish of the sidewall causes turbulence that slaps the ball around.
My further contention is that when the finish is such that this turbulence doesn't happen or is minimized, that the increased pressure where the ball meets the wall of the barrel will literally center the ball and keep it there. In an overbored barrel .003 to .005 larger than the paint is the optimum zone. With this combination I hit offhand a 120' foot silhouette 48 of 49 shots. With hand picked field paint.

Wait until someone checks for the expected change in velocity as paint diameter changes in the same LA barrel and finds different numbers than they expect by a long shot.

That's the horror of it CJ. Now I have to tell those who care how I take advantage of it.

The best case would be that it's some idiosyncrasy of the way I do it and you'll all laugh and go on about your business.
Bore match matters because of bad finish in my world.

I want to clarify WHY I've been a condescending A-hole through this whole thing.
NOONE. From cockerpunk and bryce to right this minute, has simply asked me to go out and video a LOUSY GROUP.
If what I say contradicts what people think, the only possible explanation is that I'm a liar trying to trick them.

I'm a 47 year old Electrician, who puts his money where his mouth is at one of the biggest fields in the country carrying a pair of pistols.

What possible motivation I would have for such a hoax is beyond me.

People at 250', they are not beyond me. That I know.

Rob
In the two years I have been playing paintball 3 out of the 4 pistols I owned have had the levigated aluminium flex-hone treatment.
The pistols that got it were a T68 (rap4) pistol, a Tiberius T8 and more recently a T9.
A video would prove this treatment works because it would show exactly what somebody would see if they shot a marker first with a stock barrel then the same barrel after treatment.
Its very simple, the ball does not deviate from its initial flight path as much as is did before. Don't get me wrong it still deviates but that deviation takes longer to happen. Put simply it increases your "effective" range.
Recently I got chance to try an experiment to see if it was just my shooting that had improved or the barrel that made the difference.

I had a T8 with a flex-honed stock barrel and a T9 with a regular stock barrel.
What I found was that the groupings were tighter on the T8 than the T9. Now the T9 was being used for the first time in (pistol form of course) so I was not used to the extra weight but was used to the grip.
Also due to the age difference between the two markers I found the regs on both pistols prefered to sit at slightly different FPS.
So to really test to see if it was the barrel that was making the difference or my experience, I swapped the two barrels over.
T8 barrel (flexhoned) in T9 pistol and vice versa.

The difference was immediately visible. Shooting at targets I would normally have hit in game and on the range I found I suddenly started to miss more often with the T8. The paint would fly close to my target and veer off ever so slightly.
I found myself at one point during a game cursing this decision to change barrels as I missed with two full mags at about 20 yards shooting with the T8 with the NON flex-honed barrel, and being unable to shoot with the T9 due to the rails getting caught on the bunker I was in (small hut actually).

Further proof came to me much earlier with the T68 pistol.
I got to try my friends TPX with its stock barrel. Lovely little marker is the TPX, felt good in my hand, could aim it easy, couldn't hit the damn tree at 30 yards!
Pull out the T68 pistol, its a cheap blow back, nothing special (apart from the flex-hone treatment) feels clunky in my hand hit the same tree 8 out of ten shots. Put simply the paint left the NON flex-honed TPX's barrel and proceeded to do everything in it power to not fly into that tree.
And yet the reg was keeping each of the paintballs perfectly consistent in the height they missed that tree!

I have flex-honed the T9 barrel now, for me it works. Its not a magic wand to wave and make your barrel super accurate but I am very convinced that the smoothness of your barrel is very important. It just gives you that extra bit of "reach".

BY all means test it with science and methods and what not but first you need to try it on a range to really see the difference. Then work out what's going on.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:01 PM   #59 (permalink)
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great post
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THE-SHOOTIST Anyone chubbin' like me for this?
mailmanmike Since Monday! That's more than 4 hours though, so according to those cialis ads I should see my doctor.
tlane77 I think for a non-chemical chubby it's 6 hours before its time to see a doctor. So you should be good for another couple hours.
splattttttt I wasn't goin to google "chubbin" because I assumed it had to do with fat. The lard type, not the fun stuff. But what ever feelings Jeff's experiencing, then they must be of the fun like stuff...
tlane77 He's got a woody for your woods.
splattttttt land
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:16 PM   #60 (permalink)
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