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Old 08-02-2013, 12:07 PM   #21 (permalink)
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To avoid all this sort of controversy on the field, OSG in Barnstead, NH has no mandatory surrender rule or minimum distance. The refs are very good there and they do try to keep close tabs when they know the last one or two guys are about to get bunkered. You can give the guy the option to surrender if you want, but you don't have too.

I like a field like this. I didn't see any overshooting and saw several surrenders by experienced players being nice to younger/newer players.

I think if the field has a mandatory surrender rule once your get into a certain range, then the guy should automatically have to surrender. Otherwise the nice guy offering the surrender usually is the one who comes out with the short end of the stick. Even with that its amazing how horrible people are at judging distance.
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:40 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I have played at a few few fields that have had a mandatory surrender rule and really have never been a big fan of it. It's a noble idea on paper where noone gets shot at close range if they don't want to be and everyone is happy but as the OP described, there are situations where it just doesn't work that well. I have seen too many arguments and people getting upset over weird surrender/not surrender/get shot while asking for surrenders than from close range hits. Good refs make it better but it just seems like it dulls down the game a bit. At the field I play at now, the surrender rule is used as a courtesy to newer players but isn't really a required thing. The refs will kick people for aggressively bunkering new or younger players but otherwise, it's pretty much just expected for people to be responsible otherwise they leave.
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:00 PM   #23 (permalink)
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So what I have been reading is that people feel that the surrender rule causes more pain than it is worth....more disagreements and everything else...and this is usually at rec games.

Which tells me a couple of things.
1) Field owners do not explain their rules clear enough for everyone to understand them.
2) Field owners do not train their refs well enough to mitigate conflicts and keep the experience flowing.

Keep in mind that most of the people that "use" surrender are either seasoned vets who are more than likely trying to take advantage of the rule. Or they are wannabe seasoned vets who are trying to get some glory out of the maneuver to brag about how they got 10 people out in one building without any ammo.

Your walk on renter may have heard about the rule...but often does not move enough to employ it and it may not have been explained well enough for them to know how to react to it when they hear it behind them.

People that respect the spirit of the "rule" and understand the concept behind it, know how to use it for it's intended purpose and typically do not create any conflicts when it they use it against others who also understand it.

Respect the "rule" at the field you are on and let the field owner know of any conflicts...it is simply a game and if you are out..then you are out. Walk away. If a renter shot you after you asked for them to surrender...walk away. Talk to them off the field and ask them if they understand the rule, educate them dont be condescending or mad about it...it is a game.
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Brother Jerry View Post
Keep in mind that most of the people that "use" surrender are either seasoned vets who are more than likely trying to take advantage of the rule.
This. 100%.

I wrote a few paragraphs about this happening to me last weekend and just gave up because It wasn't worth it.
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Brother Jerry View Post
So what I have been reading is that people feel that the surrender rule causes more pain than it is worth....more disagreements and everything else...and this is usually at rec games.

Which tells me a couple of things.
1) Field owners do not explain their rules clear enough for everyone to understand them.
2) Field owners do not train their refs well enough to mitigate conflicts and keep the experience flowing.

Keep in mind that most of the people that "use" surrender are either seasoned vets who are more than likely trying to take advantage of the rule. Or they are wannabe seasoned vets who are trying to get some glory out of the maneuver to brag about how they got 10 people out in one building without any ammo.

Your walk on renter may have heard about the rule...but often does not move enough to employ it and it may not have been explained well enough for them to know how to react to it when they hear it behind them.

People that respect the spirit of the "rule" and understand the concept behind it, know how to use it for it's intended purpose and typically do not create any conflicts when it they use it against others who also understand it.

Respect the "rule" at the field you are on and let the field owner know of any conflicts...it is simply a game and if you are out..then you are out. Walk away. If a renter shot you after you asked for them to surrender...walk away. Talk to them off the field and ask them if they understand the rule, educate them dont be condescending or mad about it...it is a game.

The problem is most fields dont treat it as a "RULE" almost all fields i've gone to, at the safety thing at the beginning the explination is that you need to offer a surrender but the person can still turn around and shoot you, that's where the problem is.

It's when you get the one butt hurt person that gets snuck up on and wants to "go down with a fight" which I think is complete BS. This is a game, not war, by a person saying surrender it means "I have a completely easy and open shot on you, you are technically dead but i'm being nice and letting you walk away with an imiginary hit on your back"

The few fields I've gone to that had a surrender RULE which was if you're behind someone within 10 feet they are OUT, not given a chance to turn and shoot. Those seem to work out a lot better than the other ones.

One thing that also helps is instead of saying "surrender" I'll just say "bang you're dead" 9 out of 10 it'll work fine if you're completely behind the person. Also, saying "bang you're dead" instead of surrender seems to not scare walkon players as much since when you say surrender they technically can still be shot.





They need to just start calling it a "surrender suggestion"
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Last edited by JLuke; 08-02-2013 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:29 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:50 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Maybe it would work better if if two players get within a certain distance of each other they are both out.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:53 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Jluke I completely understand...but as you said...the owners or whomever is doing the briefing does not treat it as a rule...gives it a cursory mention in the safety briefing and that is it... It is not treated as important so who else would be willing to treat it as important?

And you are right it is a game not war...that is why people are competitive and willing to risk going down in a blaze of glory. If it was war and someone came up behind you yelling surrender...you would drop your gun and put your hands in the air. Life or death tends to do that to people...but in a game...you take risks knowing it is only a game and you are only risking elimination...This is specially true of recreational games....they are recreational.

Surrender situations were created to protect players from shots up close that could cause more pain. They were created to protect new players as there is not a desire to scare off new players with a person who bunkers them up and lights them up from 10 feet away. The person who gets lit up from the rear at that range will more than likely not come back.

Abuse comes in when people charge a bunker and point their marker over the wall and are screaming surrender at the top of their lungs acting like dorks....they don't wait for a response and instead pull the trigger. Or when face to face and the same dork thinks it is a matter of who is making an aggressive action and can yell "surrender" the quickest and the loudest. That is not the intent of the "rule" and is a failure on everyones part really to not explain that to them. Ref's should correct players doing that, field owners should explain what and why the rule is in place at their field.

Abuse of the rules happen because the people "enforcing" the rules don't. When officials on any level don't care then douchebags will abuse what semblance of order there is. It is just like the refs that split the teams their 10 buddies with electro's and ramping against 10 renters....just because it is their friends.
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Old 08-03-2013, 01:45 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Surrender rules are lame, they lead to nothing but disputes. Lower muzzle velocity solves the problem more surely than two guys shouting surrender at one another.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:44 AM   #30 (permalink)
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My field has a fairly clear surrender rule. If you are within 15-20 feet and you don't think you can close the gap to barrel tag/knife/slap for the out you can offer the surrender. If the person being surrendered turns or does anything other than surrender, you can shoot them, but you have to be merciful about it ie. shoot the pack or 2 shots tops. There is also the stipulation that trying to surrender someone from their front or while they're in cover doesn't work and shouldn't be tried.
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