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Old 08-01-2013, 11:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Surrender Rule

I have a question for you guys. The field I play at has a 15ft surrender rule, pretty standard for any rec field. I do follow the rule, if I walk up on someone I will ask them to surrender. They are small fields (each field about the size of a PSP field) and sometimes trouble arises. The trouble being, you're playing and all the sudden you and another guy are within 15ft, they have players behind him shooting at you and you have players behind you shooting them. My question is, do you guys honor the surrender rule and ask them to surrender (even though you both see each other and maybe trade a ball or two) as you're being shot at from multiple people or just put one shot and try to explain yourself later?

I don't mean to come off as a jerk and say "screw the rules and shot them" but from time to time you get in a real sticky situation. Of course, I won't shot a kid/first-timer/mom/etc. that close and I am not playing to win on a rec field, but it happens.

Like I said, I don't want to sound like a jerk, but it has happened multiple times and I'm trying to figure out a "better" surrender/close quarters rule. If that makes sense.

Thanks
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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In our surrender rule, you only need to aska player if they want to surrender if they don't know you are there.

Two players facing each other in opposing bunkers do not have to ask one another to surrender. However, at any point, either player can obviously call themselves out without being shot. That way, if someone doesn't want to get shot from close range, they can surrender on their own.
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Generally the 'surrender rule' is for when you get the drop on someone and sneak up without being seen. That said, ask a ref at your field because it all depends on the local ground rules. One place I play at will not allow you to advance within 20 feet other another player at all; if you do, you're out.
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Generally I try to avoid that situation altogether if possible by slowing down the advance when you know you're getting close to the surrender distance. 15 ft limit, shoot them at 20, problem avoided.

But I have been to a field where the field size and number of bunkers almost guaranteed that you'd end up accidentally right next to an opponent. Indoors with reduced velocity, but they had a strict 10 ft no shooting rule. If someone was 10 ft or less away you simply could NOT shoot at them. Shoot at their teammates all you want, but DON'T shoot at them. I ended up sharing a bunker with an opponent more than once at that field, it was really trippy. However, you of course could back up to over 10 ft and shoot them if you thought you could pull it off (many did just that), or you could shout "Grenade!". When you did that everyone within 10 ft of you, Including Yourself, was eliminated. One last renter cowering in a back corner bunker? Run up and shout Grenade and end the game. You're really sneaky and can get behind the other team and 4 of them are clustered together? One shout and you've dramatically shifted the game.
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
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The field I've been playing at has a 10' surrender rule.

If I really sneak up and scare someone I'll try to surrender them. I prefer to give myself away and shoot from further back though. I usually shoot at 15'+ whenever possible; I've never had someone complain about a single shot, even if it's in the back, from 10 ft+ (we're usually chronoed down to 260-270 though). I have however, had bad experiences shooting/getting shot at close range (~3-5 ft) when trying to surrender people closer in (they usually panic and start shooting). If it's obviously a newer player I always either put myself in a position to shoot from further away (they're easy to flank) or just snap shoot until I get them.
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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that's why there are refs. if the refs are decent, they'll be aware of the situation and will sort out that problem. simple as that.

though on one field, they had an automatic surrender rule, where you banged on the bunker 3 times to "eliminate" everyone in that bunker. that saves a lot of close shooting incidents and questions. i've done it, so where you can run up on a bunkering move, but instead of close quarters, tap the bunker and save the people in there.

now for you, if you move up into the 15' area for surrender, are you out or are they? so technically, you can move up the field and not shoot a ball and eliminate the entire team, IF you are luckily not seen. i don't find that very fun, regardless of the safety factor.

but, if you don't have refs worth a damn, it really doesn't matter. they should be the ones that are looking out for the safety of the players, first and foremost.
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:12 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I got in a minor pissing match with a young ref at "my" field (you know, the one you've been playing at for 10+ years) about just this issue last fall... Bear in mind they have an established surrender rule.

I came down the side of the field to flank the enemy fort in a friendly recreational "storm the castle" game where the objective is to reach and physically touch the fort. I found a guy was locking down a kitty corner TP bunker on the side of the fort near one of the refs, occasionally shooting across the front of of the fort to the other side of the field - I discovered this by walking sneakily in the back of the bunker to finding him about six feet in front of me starting to shoot.

I said "surrender" loudly enough for him and the ref to hear me; I was too close to shoot him safely and he wasn't wearing a podpack for me to tag. The kid turned around slowly, then the ref yelled out "there's no surrender" at which point the kid shrugged and lit me up. Needless to say I was bruised and pissed, and probably should have bunkered him and shot him in his stupid head, but it's just as much the referees fault as I see it.

Anyhow I've never been to a recball game at any field without a surrender rule, at least not in the last decade or so. I've seen 10ft, 15ft and 20ft rules... Generally it covers getting the drop on someone (sneaking up up somewhere in the rear 180 to 240 degrees which are not visible to them) and rather than shooting them from close range you yell "surrender" or tag them with your barrel tip.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jaltro View Post
I have a question for you guys. The field I play at has a 15ft surrender rule, pretty standard for any rec field. I do follow the rule, if I walk up on someone I will ask them to surrender. They are small fields (each field about the size of a PSP field) and sometimes trouble arises. The trouble being, you're playing and all the sudden you and another guy are within 15ft, they have players behind him shooting at you and you have players behind you shooting them. My question is, do you guys honor the surrender rule and ask them to surrender (even though you both see each other and maybe trade a ball or two) as you're being shot at from multiple people or just put one shot and try to explain yourself later?

I don't mean to come off as a jerk and say "screw the rules and shot them" but from time to time you get in a real sticky situation. Of course, I won't shot a kid/first-timer/mom/etc. that close and I am not playing to win on a rec field, but it happens.

Like I said, I don't want to sound like a jerk, but it has happened multiple times and I'm trying to figure out a "better" surrender/close quarters rule. If that makes sense.

Thanks
Surrender rules are the same here in FL. In a case like you described I walked up on a building with 4 people inside and had them surrender, ref said it's 1 for 1. So next game I stood about 20 feet away and blasted everyone inside until all of them were hit and calling themselves out repeatedly. I follow all the rules and play to win, you should also. In recball it's just not worth sneaking up on someone and making them surrender because there will always be an argument, especially if they get scared and shoot you. The field staff should get creative and decrease the velocity to 230-250fps and have no surrender rule if the field is really too small.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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At the field i used to play at the rule was 10 feet but no was listened because that was impractical i didn't follow it ether infact i have only asked a person well it was actually two people to surrender because i had the drop on them it was point blank range and i had been friendly with those guys lol one of them nearly pissed himself when all of a sudden i showed up outside the window aiming my marker at his head and shout surrender deeper and louder than i thought i could he actually feel over backward from the shock.
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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we have no hard and fast surrender rule at our field, its always "surrender?" rather than "SURRENDER", giveing them the option rather than telling them they have. Makes sense because if both players are facing each other they have equal chance. Seen a few exchanges of fire from a couple of feet away that have made me wince while watching them (usually people either side of a wall with holes in it). We don't play with renters tough.
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