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Old 01-21-2014, 05:51 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ironnerd88 View Post
This has been an interesting read.
I’ll start with this: Tournament play is about the worst spectator sport out there. I would rather watch Synchronized Dungeons & Dragons.
I think you are right. There is a massive difference between something being enjoyable to do and something being enjoyable to watch on television. We can go further: there is a massive difference between a sport that is enjoyable to watch in person and one that is enjoyable to watch on tv, just ask the NHL.

To me, and I could be wrong, tournament paintball today is like minor league baseball (actually its more like little league if the parents were not there). Maybe there is a better product out there like it but it does not have the ability to stand on its own.
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:17 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by idkfa View Post
There are too many focal points in paintball, not to mention that the flag is often an after thought. I suggest forcing the attention (both the players and the spectators) onto the flag (which has to be brought to the opposing team's post):

1. stock class only, with a set number of balls per player (I am not going to get into specifics)

2. air bunkers, just for convenience and prevalence

3. larger field, maybe double the current standard

4. points for eliminations, but overwhelming points for a flag push (to the point where it is unlikely to win based on shooting people out)

5. respawn after a certain period of time (enough to make you notice that you are down a player or two, but not enough to allow the other team to roll over you if they get a player or two out)

6. more players, like 10 per side

This should force people to move more and play smarter. I think limited firepower would prevent the respawn from stalemating the field and the slower ROF should cut down on wiping (it would be harder to hide because there isn't paint flying and splattering everywhere).

What really got me thinking here was the Air Bunkers - what if they randomly (and very quickly) deflated Now THAT would force some movement.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:47 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by idkfa View Post
There are too many focal points in paintball, not to mention that the flag is often an after thought. I suggest forcing the attention (both the players and the spectators) onto the flag (which has to be brought to the opposing team's post):

1. stock class only, with a set number of balls per player (I am not going to get into specifics)

2. air bunkers, just for convenience and prevalence

3. larger field, maybe double the current standard

4. points for eliminations, but overwhelming points for a flag push (to the point where it is unlikely to win based on shooting people out)

5. respawn after a certain period of time (enough to make you notice that you are down a player or two, but not enough to allow the other team to roll over you if they get a player or two out)

6. more players, like 10 per side

This should force people to move more and play smarter. I think limited firepower would prevent the respawn from stalemating the field and the slower ROF should cut down on wiping (it would be harder to hide because there isn't paint flying and splattering everywhere).
A tourney I played in last year had a pretty good setup for that. It was 2 v 2 open class pump, center flag on an airball field.

Scoring was set up as follows :

5 points per elimination
5 points for first person to grab the flag
10 points for a flag hang on the opposing team's home bunker within the 5 minute time limit

You'd have to rebalance the numbers a bit for larger teams, but the goal is to make getting and moving the flag the focus, so that teams can't win by camping for eliminations. A restrictive time limit plus needing to get, keep, and hang that flag to win makes for much more movement.

Run that sort of setup with limited paint semi at most, and I think it would get -very- watchable. The flag gives the camera and the audience an immediate focus point.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:09 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I don't think teams that require a large number of players is a good way to go. We've had a culture change over the years where people seem to be having a tough time to commit to anything. Having many people needing to commit just leads to a greater chance of things falling apart.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:04 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
I don't think teams that require a large number of players is a good way to go. We've had a culture change over the years where people seem to be having a tough time to commit to anything. Having many people needing to commit just leads to a greater chance of things falling apart.
Makes sense. The above could easily be amended with a smaller field and 3 or 5 man teams.
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:00 AM   #66 (permalink)
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In other (more nerdy organizations) competitions are weighted by scope. This means that at a local field event, a team (of 5) is awarded 10 points for 1st, 6 pts for 2nd, 4 for 3rd, and 2 points for 4th. At the “State” level, the points are doubled. At the “Regional” level they are tripled, and at the “National” event, the points are quadrupled. Regardless, your team still gets 1 point for stepping onto the field (this is required for “Earned Point Averages” – see below). There are three divisions, A Division (up to 13 yrs old), B Division (14-18), and C Division (19 on up). For paintball I would move the ages around a little, maybe add an “Old Dude” league for dudes over 40. There would also have to be separate divisions for differing equipment; (E)lectro-semi, (M)echanical-Semi, (P)ump, and (S)tock. With hopper limitations it may be possible to have Semi-(A)uto, (P)ump, and (S)tock.


There are drawbacks to this system; it requires all of the competitors to be in the same organization, and it also requires oversight and record keeping. All the refs, field owners, and event organizers would need to be trained and certified. Events would have to be sanctioned ahead of time. Some minimum field standards would have to be set. Teams would have to keep the governing body informed of roster changes.


The benefit is that a team could be nationally ranked. Anyone could look up “Team Squishy Pants” and see that they have 150 points, and are ranked #35 in the nation overall, and are #16 in the state of Iowa. They could also see that they earn an average of 7.25 points per event, putting their Earned Point Average at #98 in the nation. Of course you can play every day at the local field and rack up a bunch of points, but your Earned Point Average would never be better than 10. This encourages teams to go to larger events with, presumably, tougher competition. The organization could even state that your team must have competed in 4 Local events with an EPA of at least 5 to qualify for a State-level event. Maybe 2 state events are required for a Regional, and 1 regional event in order to qualify for Nationals. Or something like that – this is really just off the top of my head, but some requirements may be necessary to prevent first timers from being utterly destroyed when they decide "Dude, let's do Nationals! I can take my Dad's Stingray. It'll be awesome!"


When they go to “The American Paintball Championship”, teams would start out by playing against teams with a similar Earned Point Average (to make things as even, and as competitive, as possible). As they compete, they would earn points for wins, and the highest total at the end of the day is the winner.


What wins a game? A flag hang (center flag format). No points for eliminations (that's like football awarding points for each tackle or reception).
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:01 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Wow, this thread is still going.

I think people here are confusing what would improve tournament paintball with what they want to see tournament paintball become. Again, I can only speak for New England / the Northeast at large. How come almost every attempt at a decent mechanical or pump gun event has failed? People don't want to play it. I don't see this logic that forcing an UNPOPULAR format on players is going to INCREASE participation. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Once you get past Young Guns, the kids wanna shoot pods in each other's general direction. That isn't the problem. The problem I brought up in the original post is specifically addressing a STRUCTURAL problem in terms of how divisions are organized and (not) recognized. There is no uniformity to the ranking system and this discourages winning behavior as far as I'm concerned.

By all means, continue the conversation, but lets address the ranking problems. At least here in New England, the major change over the last few years is less local events and more emphasis on season-long series with cash prizes. The New England Paintball League even offered a kind of novel program where teams could "risk" paying more money on entry and pay into a pool. if they won the event, they'd win the pool. Teams that didn't want to risk it would play in the same division but wouldn't win the cash. I mean, I think that's a lot of diversity to offer and I don't think it really took off (correct me if I'm wrong, New Englanders).

Is the emphasis too heavy on cash and not on the PRIDE of the event? And what gets me is that people chase the magic promise of cash, and if you break even, it's a miracle.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:48 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
I don't think teams that require a large number of players is a good way to go. We've had a culture change over the years where people seem to be having a tough time to commit to anything. Having many people needing to commit just leads to a greater chance of things falling apart.
Not as hard as you think. We have more then enough players on our roster. And you go on PBN there are free agent threads loaded with players if you need a body.


Quote:
Wow, this thread is still going.
Yeah lol. I almost unsub'd to this but there is a lot of good reading here. I also completely agree with your above post. The more I think about it, the more I realize that fundamentally PLAYING is fun and not boring. I would just like to see some tweaks to the game as well as the ranking system.

I would like to see in my area.

1. Improved Ranking
2. Time limit PER POINT
3. 10.2 BPS PSP Ramp in all divsions
4. Removal of incentives to remain in the lower division(D5 and D4). I think lower division prizes should be paint and entry fee vouchers. Not hard prizes. Bring them back to play, not to win stuff.

Last edited by No Have MSG; 01-23-2014 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:58 AM   #69 (permalink)
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I'm still thinking about the quickly deflatable bunker idea. Its great.

What if at the beginning of each point you allowed the team to select X amount of bunkers (out of Y) that would stay inflated on their side? This would give a bit of strategy. Perhaps you could even have offenses and defense and have different "formations that each team employed to try to counter what they thought the other team would do. Ten seconds before the start whistle the non-selected bunkers deflate and you have to deal with what you and the other team have done.
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"Use peaceful means where they are appropriate; but where they are not appropriate, do not hesitate to resort to more forceful - Thupten Gyatso (the Dalai Lama, 1932)

"It is not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters" Coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant.

"The ink of scholars is more precious than the blood of martyrs" - Muhammed
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:01 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by No Have MSG View Post
4. Removal of incentives to remain in the lower division(D5 and D4). I think lower division prizes should be paint and entry fee vouchers. Not hard prizes. Bring them back to play, not to win stuff.
I think we should seriously reconsider prizes at the lower divisions and in fact at anything but the very highest. Only the elite of the elite should be competing for skill based prizes.

If prizes at the lower division are not totally done away with make them random draw door prizes. If people feel like the outcome of the match should have some determination allow a lottery system - IE every game each team playing gets at least 1 ping pong ball with the winning team getting 2.
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