Paintball

[MassDestruction00]

Originally Posted by drg

It would actually be ideal if the gun DID register that as a shot, because the shooter clearly meant to take a shot there. That would render the second finger's motion a legitimate trigger pull.

I hate to add fuel to this, but by this logic you could imply that because you meant to fire as fast as you could, it does not matter what the marker does to get there.

if you walk the trigger and your index finger pushes the trigger and release it and then your middle finger pushes it and releases it and you get two balls that is intentional.

if you take the same action but between the two trigger pulls there is enough mechanical or electrical bounce to fire the marker any more then the above described two times, then it is not entirely you making that marker fire the 3-4-5 however many shots. it is an after effect, it is just there are so few markers set up to be entirely leagle that we have come to look at a marker that truley has no bounce as slow

[raehl]

It looks like I can fly drg to PSP Phoenix, assuming Manike is going to be there anyway, for about $405, Thu-Sun or Fri-Mon.

So what say you drg, want to get in front of Manike's camera?

[Azzy]

I think what needs to be defined is what is a trigger pull.

In the world of firearms, a trigger pull as defined by the ATF is a pull and complete release of the trigger. That motion fires one shot, anything else is considered full auto.

In this case, we are talking about the trigger activating the gun multiple times before a complete trigger cycle happens.

[Tracker]

Originally Posted by raehl

It looks like I can fly drg to PSP Phoenix, assuming Manike is going to be there anyway, for about $405, Thu-Sun or Fri-Mon.

So what say you drg, want to get in front of Manike's camera?

can there be any promises made about refraining of showing proof of recently aforementioned claims?... from either of you

Tracker

[pump]

Manike....come over.........i got a couch with your name on it

wait you work for empire.............ill pick you up from the Hotel then.......and then ill show you the similarities of English law and Hawaiian Kingdom law


you know that Hawaii was gonna become part of the British Empire.....Kamehameha The Great Signed a Treaty with George Vancouver....but it was never ratified by the English Government. But nonetheless Hawaii Began to operate as if it were one of the British holdings until Kamehameha II Liholiho sailed to Britain to confirm its ratification. It wasn't so later The Hawaiian Kingdom became a Recognized State.

see we could go to the archives and do research all day!!!!!!!!!!! WOOT!!!!!!!!!!!



hehehehe when vacations go bad hahahahahaha

[drg]

Originally Posted by raehl

It looks like I can fly drg to PSP Phoenix, assuming Manike is going to be there anyway, for about $405, Thu-Sun or Fri-Mon.

So what say you drg, want to get in front of Manike's camera?

How about lodging and per diem?

For that price, you can buy me one of the afforementioned Casio cameras and I can film into the future at up to 1200 fps

Or fly manike out here, I'm sure it's a more pleasant thought to come here from phoenix than vice versa ... that's an actual vacation

[drg]

Originally Posted by secretweaponevan

Here is what I am seeing.

Camp A thinks that the Platygiraffeapus likes marble cake.
Camp B thinks that the Platygiraffeapus does not like marble cake.

I think the resulting drama has been because of an unclear definition of "bounce".

I think Camp A believes that any finger movement contacting the trigger (even a near-fully depressed trigger) should count as a voluntary trigger pull as long as the marker fires.

I think Camp B believes that finger movements that contact a trigger that is depressed or near-fully depressed do not count as a voluntary trigger pull even if the marker fires.

First lets see if we can agree on a definition of "bounce" while I steal the test piece of marble cake.

Heck we don't even have an agreed-upon definition of "trigger pull" yet, despite me asking for one several times. And people wonder why I don't think people are giving things proper consideration.

Originally Posted by Azzy

I think what needs to be defined is what is a trigger pull.

In the world of firearms, a trigger pull as defined by the ATF is a pull and complete release of the trigger. That motion fires one shot, anything else is considered full auto.

In this case, we are talking about the trigger activating the gun multiple times before a complete trigger cycle happens.

Exactly, azzy. I have asked for it several times now, with illustrative examples, even.

The BATFE, as far as I know, considers ANY electronic trigger mechanism to be in the same class as machineguns/fully automatic weapons, so it's hard to apply that definition here since electronic triggers ARE legal in our sport.

If we decide that a trigger pull is a complete, 100% release of the trigger, then I agree that my video does not have enough resolution to show that. I am not working with that definition, because I believe trigger pull length is a personal preference and a person with a 5 mm trigger pull walking with an amplitude of 4mm should be credited with trigger pulls just the same as a person with a 1mm trigger pull walking with the same 4mm amplitude. The question to me is voluntary finger motion. And regardless, non-full pulls are NOT the same thing as bounce.

[drg]

Originally Posted by MassDestruction00

I hate to add fuel to this, but by this logic you could imply that because you meant to fire as fast as you could, it does not matter what the marker does to get there.

if you walk the trigger and your index finger pushes the trigger and release it and then your middle finger pushes it and releases it and you get two balls that is intentional.

if you take the same action but between the two trigger pulls there is enough mechanical or electrical bounce to fire the marker any more then the above described two times, then it is not entirely you making that marker fire the 3-4-5 however many shots. it is an after effect, it is just there are so few markers set up to be entirely leagle that we have come to look at a marker that truley has no bounce as slow

I must have edited this out of an earlier response, but I did say and have been saying exactly that:

Originally Posted by drg

So what if that happens? Does it result in one shot or two or more? If one shot, then it wouldn't be counted in sound-based measurements, so it's insignificant. If it results in 2 shots, then each finger motion is a legitimate trigger pull even though the trigger doesn't appear to come up (as long as it crossed the triggering point). If it results in more than 2 shots, THEN we have significant bounce. That would be detectable even at a MUCH MUCH slower framerate.

[drg]

Originally Posted by Tracker

can there be any promises made about refraining of showing proof of recently aforementioned claims?... from either of you

Tracker

I already posted the photographic evidence!

[raehl]

I think a trigger pull is the movement, under force of a trigger finger, of the trigger past the trigger point, followed by the movement of the trigger back across that trigger point under the same force that resisted the original pull. (So no 4 lb of resistance to the pull followed by 8 lbs of force pushing the trigger back after the shot.)